Sauber C32 Ferrari

[Raptor22]

What on earth has this meteorology got to do with the Sauber C32?

Look at the caption - it shows the variation in gravity around the earth.

Raptor & bhallg2k - Thanks for reminding us that air should be considered incompressible in the context of air flow over an F1 car. It's nice to have the occasional interlude while we wait for more pictures of the car.

Back to Sauber - I am curious about the lift on the pods. Sending flow sideways on each side results in equal and opposite forces. The sloping Sauber pod sends air over the top so that would create a bit of lift. Obviously they perceive the overall benefits outweigh that notional lift.

How much lift is created? Is it significant or is this an angels on the head of a pin debate? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_many_a ... f_a_pin%3F

and what an incredibly sexy car it is.

It would be a lugh if its faster than the McLaren.... Perez willbe kicking himself while Koba should be sobbing

[bhall]

I would think sidepod lift is negligible insofar as it's likely more or less the same for everyone, right?

Incompressible flow vs. compressible flow is an interesting topic, though. I see more and more how both play roles in F1. (I think. I dunno.)

At any rate, excellent subtlety, Rich. I give it an A-.

[Drewd11]

I would think sidepod lift is negligible insofar as it's likely more or less the same for everyone, right?

Well the benefits of using the flow over the sidepods to influence the exhaust downwards to seal the diffuser clearly outweigh the extra lift since most are running this sort of system.
My guess would be that since rear downforce has been the limiting factor of overall downforce since EBDs were banned that most teams are exceedingly comfortable trading some amount of lift, however much it may turn out to be, on the sidepods for more downforce at the back from the diffuser.

[Artur Craft]

What on earth has this meteorology got to do with the Sauber C32?

Back to Sauber - I am curious about the lift on the pods. Sending flow sideways on each side results in equal and opposite forces. The sloping Sauber pod sends air over the top so that would create a bit of lift. Obviously they perceive the overall benefits outweigh that notional lift.

How much lift is created? Is it significant or is this an angels on the head of a pin debate? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_many_a ... f_a_pin%3F

Yep, some lift is created by the pods. That lift is a result of the inevitable downwash that the pod's shape create. The teams have been using this downwash to guide the exhaust plume to places they think will serve them better(diffuser seal), and therefore, more than counterbalance the lift created by the pods.

That's where we have some doubt whether C32's is perfectly guiding exhaust plume to it's desired place. From some scorching marks that we saw, at least part of it is going inward which is not the best place to direct the hot high energized exhaust gases

Well the benefits of using the flow over the sidepods to influence the exhaust downwards to seal the diffuser clearly outweigh the extra lift since most are running this sort of system.
My guess would be that since rear downforce has been the limiting factor of overall downforce since EBDs were banned that most teams are exceedingly comfortable trading some amount of lift, however much it may turn out to be, on the sidepods for more downforce at the back from the diffuser.

my guesses too.

But in reality, rear downforce being the limiting factor is the norm since the regulation change in 2009. Even with DDD or EBD, teams could not generate downforce enough at the rear to balance the max downforce they can get from the big and low front wings they now carry. That is due to diffuser and rear wing being very restricted while front wing isn't

[Raptor22]

I would imagine that side pod lift is small in comparison to the total downforce. Besides one would need to consider the floor as part of the wing profile that includes the sidepods and it would vaguely resemble in a wing with excess reflex which would generate downforce not lift

[bhall]

I wonder which RW will they use in Melbourne: the Jerez one, the "spoon" or the "wavy"

I think they will use the Jerez one but in Sepang and China, I suspect it will be either the spoon or the wavy

Given the team's poor bugdet, I think that's all we gonna see in Australia as even the richer teams don't seem to be bringing much upgrades in 2 weeks time

(Yes, this is a bit of a rewind.)

It wouldn't surprise me if they run the shallower wing at every race but Monaco and Monza. (Which really means we'll probably see the other one on the car in Australia.)

Red Bull has been running a shallow wing for years now, and I imagine that's because the SlimFast Coke bottles prominently featured on their cars lately - er, not so prominently? - allows enough volume to flow under the wing to render a high AoA unnecessary. Sauber should get the same benefit from their subtlepods™.

[henra]

I would imagine that side pod lift is small in comparison to the total downforce. Besides one would need to consider the floor as part of the wing profile that includes the sidepods and it would vaguely resemble in a wing with excess reflex which would generate downforce not lift

Exactly.
If properly done (No stalling, nice, laminar flow towards diffuser upper side) it will surely have more overall downforce than a (partly) choking coke bottle design where the speed of the air over the diffuser is reduced. What counts is the overall effect. And that may be different than the individual forces.

[roadie]

One interesting thing about the C32 is that it was designed for your average racing jockey. Not The Hulk! Look how high his helmet is against the headrest...

[infy]

They cant really make the car higher, because that would destroy its COG.

[Nando]

Vettel sat quite high last year too,



My understanding was that Hulk had problems with the height of the foot-well. Where he had to cut of some pieces of his shoes or something.

[turbof1]

One interesting thing about the C32 is that it was designed for your average racing jockey. Not The Hulk! Look how high his helmet is against the headrest...
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8365/8537 ... 1be4_b.jpg

Suprise return kobayashi in the making?

[kilcoo316]

there are drastic density changes around an F1 car. The air is not considered incompressible.

F1 cars are not approaching transonic let alone supersonic speeds so the air flowing around it is not considered to be compressible. Its treated as IMCOMPRESSIBLE FLOW.

There are compressiblity effects but they are so small that they are considered negligible.

At 200 mph at sea-level on an ISA day, an F1 car travels at Mach ~0.26

Compressibility in the freestream, that is rhoT/rho, is therefore ~1.035. Which is negligible.

But, bear in mind that around the suction surface of the wing, local air speeds may rise to 400 mph, at which point the compressibility is now ~1.144.


While you are right in saying the vast majority of the flow around an F1 car can be assumed to be incompressible, that amount of compressibility would be too large to ignore in getting accurate numerical simulation results.


[At no point anywhere on an F1 car, except perhaps the exhausts or maybe around the engine valves at certain times, would the flow be capable of sonic choking.]

[gandharva]

My understanding was that Hulk had problems with the height of the foot-well. Where he had to cut of some pieces of his shoes or something.

No, on first Jerez test his shoes simply had been one number too small. That's all.

[Raptor22]

with the study and design of aerofoils compressibility is taken into account yes. If it was ignored we'd be engineering wings that are lift neutral. But in this specific area of study and design we are looking at a very thin layer of flow which is considered to bounded i.e. not free stream. Thats the area aeronautical engineers delve into whereas Mechanical engineers tend to stick tothe classic areas of free stream and bounded flow (pneumatics, reciprocating machines etc.)

[Nando]

My understanding was that Hulk had problems with the height of the foot-well. Where he had to cut of some pieces of his shoes or something.

No, on first Jerez test his shoes simply had been one number too small. That's all.

Looks like it was the opposite, his shoes was too big so they gave him smaller ones.

http://www.forumula1.com/news/hulkenber ... ew-sauber/