2014 too slow? (or not, as the case may be)

[Andres125sx]

Why does Top Gear do so well? Yes, we see pretty girls front row in the audience (no mistake) and boys doing silly things and getting into trouble, but overriding that is the showcase of fast, loud, well handling cars. They even have a fastest lap time completion.

Because they're idiots doing interesting things. Their top rated episode is the Vietnam special, where no vehicle had more than 20HP. Then the Boliva special, American special, Botswana, various cars vs non-cars, north pole special, etc. Nobody cares about the Ferrari lap times. We want to see how these guys nearly kill themselves.

Guinness Book of Records holder for most watched factual programme in the world - Sold to 214 territories worldwide

Yeah, but they're idiots lot's of people watch - motorsport fans and average joe's alike. And what does top gear sell? Fast, loud, well handling cars (among other things). That premise sits at the very top rung. It's what they want people to aspire too. In doing so, they directly cross reference to F1 so much. How much? The great F1 man himself posed as "the Stig". Hell, they have their own F1 lap time comp - to name a few. This is where average people join the line between F1 (motorsport in general) and domestic cars, not from press ads and websites. It may not be want FOM wants, but it's what happens. This is where the 'relevance' happens at ground level.

So, given that, let's see how a 'slow, quiet, hard to handle' car is accepted by the audience. Even better, put a Merc star on the front of that car and get the stig to do a lap. I bet no manufacture does it, ever. Why? Answer that and you can answer "is 2014 too slow".

Easy, if they´re trying to convice average people and speed is everything....

2014 F1 cars reach a much higher top speed than 2013 F1 cars

[Cam]

Easy, if they´re trying to convice average people and speed is everything....

I wonder what the F1 brand is? Let's check.

The F1® brand - a powerful symbol of excellence

Formula 1® racing is the ultimate test of man and machine - pushing car and driver to their absolute limits in pursuit of one simple goal. Speed.

Not sure what I'm watching, but it sure as heck ain't that.

[bhall]

F1 loves to promote its speed.




Listen to that V12. Listen to it.





In many instances, the performance of a current F1 car in such a demonstration would be indistinguishable from a GP2 or World Series by Renault car, and they'd both have an equally smaller margin to the others than would the case for previous F1 cars.

[strad]

F1 website wrote:
The F1® brand - a powerful symbol of excellence
Formula 1® racing is the ultimate test of man and machine - pushing car and driver to their absolute limits in pursuit of one simple goal. Speed

Cam wrote

Not sure what I'm watching, but it sure as heck ain't that.

Nomally I might just give you a thumbs up on that Cam but they insist on more.
Soooo..I can only say I could not agree with you more. In the last decade F1 has become a pale shadow of it's former self and this year just tops the cake for F1 making a joke of itself.
You cannot show this to an F1 virgin and have them come away all agog at the performance and handling.

[Cam]

If it said "the pinnacle of Motorsport where speed and spectacle is second to manufacture relevance", then you and I would have zero argument. But nowhere does it say that, anywhere.

pushing car and driver to their absolute limits in pursuit of one simple goal. Speed

Not sure "lift and coast" counts here? Flat out every lap does though.

Innovation, glamour, excitement, speed and excellence - the F1 brand is a powerful symbol and has long denoted and identified a fine and distinctive partnership between sporting and technological excellence, embracing its historical roots whilst looking forward to the challenges of the future to maintain its position as the very pinnacle of motor racing.

This is where the disconnect between what F1 is and what we are currently seeing, begins. So I simply cannot agree with anyone that "speed" isn't everything, when that's the motto of the sport. I would suggest the same people read that statement in full and attempt to convince me otherwise.

[hollus]

With so many safety cars, one cannot really compare Monaco from one year to the next. 2013 was also special for tactical reasons. But still...
The graph below shows the lap times of each year's winner courtesy of the "lap time charts" from F1fanatic, stretched for comparison and ease of alignment. Ignore the yellow trace, it is Kimi and it is only there to force the same scale in all graphs.

[siskue2005]

I posted this in the Monaco thread, but it seems to fit here as well: Direct comparison between the 2011 pole lap and the best lap from yesterday set in FP1. I will make a new version this video saturday with the actual pole lap, which will likely be a bit faster. The difference with 2011 is huge though, almost looks like the 2014 car is driving an outlap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_8PA4llfUo

Why dont you do a comparison on Nico's Pole lap 2014 (1.15.9) to his 2013 pole lap (1.13.7)?

[Miguel]

I posted this in the Monaco thread, but it seems to fit here as well: Direct comparison between the 2011 pole lap and the best lap from yesterday set in FP1. I will make a new version this video saturday with the actual pole lap, which will likely be a bit faster. The difference with 2011 is huge though, almost looks like the 2014 car is driving an outlap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_8PA4llfUo

Why dont you do a comparison on Nico's Pole lap 2014 (1.15.9) to his 2013 pole lap (1.13.7)?

Because he knows cars in May are faster than in February, but they invariably still post Q3 times around Barcelona slower than winter testing, year after year after year?

[Sevach]

Massa is on record saying that the feared Monaco race was easier than he expected.
The torquey beasts aren't such beasts.

To the people that say faster isn't harder, many drivers have been on record saying that since the no refueling rules, races have been easier and less tiring.

[Vettel Maggot]

I remember Lewis saying the cars would be a 'disaster' in wet conditions in pre season testing. Hardly the case at all really. I think when people say the drivers are 'fighting' the car all the time it is slightly overrated. It looks pretty easy to me from the onboards, touring cars look harder to drive.

[Cam]

I remember Lewis saying the cars would be a 'disaster' in wet conditions in pre season testing. Hardly the case at all really. I think when people say the drivers are 'fighting' the car all the time it is slightly overrated. It looks pretty easy to me from the onboards, touring cars look harder to drive.

"I expected Monaco to be much more tricky that how it was," Massa admitted. "We didn't see much mistakes and people crashing alone, so it was a bit better than expected. "I thought it was going to be very difficult with more torque, but it was no problem."

Formula 1® racing is the ultimate test of man and machine - pushing car and driver to their absolute limits in pursuit of one simple goal. Speed.

Either Massa has transcended to a new level of skill, or we need to call that a failure of brand guidelines.

[stephenwh]

Looking at everything I would say F1 got it just about perfect...the lap times are going to come down as the teams understand this new formula better, and as the engines get updates. I really don't see what the problem is at all...the FIA is supposed to slow the cars down a bit with each major change...

[Cam]

Looking at everything I would say F1 got it just about perfect...the lap times are going to come down as the teams understand this new formula better, and as the engines get updates. I really don't see what the problem is at all...the FIA is supposed to slow the cars down a bit with each major change...

So the FIA is supposed to slow the cars down?? Here I was thinking they were responsible for "the licensing and arbitration of Formula One".

Well, they need to tell that MrE before someone applies for a 'false and mis-leading' advertising case. Because I bought F1 and when I got it home it wasn't as described on the package.

In that case, a revised F1 brand should be:

Formula 1® racing is a test of machine with a ballast of man, made by the FIA and it reserves the right to slow, uglify, and quieten the cars (the 'formula') - while keeping car and driver well within their limits in an ever increasing search for 'economy' - but not cash economy - the FIA and FOM encourage as much cash spending as whoever is willing to pass it over. The 'one goal - speed', is replaced by the one goal 'it's the car, stupid', whereby only the results of the car is deemed to be relevant to a drivers performance.

Yep, that'll do it. If that is published on the F1 site, then I have no argument to give.

[strad]

If the drivers can't deal with the power/torque then I'd say they aren't drivers at all.

[FoxHound]

Not sure "lift and coast" counts here? Flat out every lap does though.

Out of interest, when did drivers last go flat out every lap?

This is where the disconnect between what F1 is and what we are currently seeing, begins. So I simply cannot agree with anyone that "speed" isn't everything, when that's the motto of the sport. I would suggest the same people read that statement in full and attempt to convince me otherwise.

If you feel the need for speed, may I suggest a visit to Santa Pod(uk based).
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOOP6eZitOk[/youtube]

Here, speed is everything.

But F1 is and always has been about racing. We talk about a racing series set up by rules(or a "Formula") to not only find the fastest driver, but the best over an entire season.
You say speed is pivotal to F1. I think otherwise, because speed is not necessary. Racing is.

You want examples?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pA0mOxxeTA[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSIBabCtClE[/youtube]