2016 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, 22-24 July

[Shrieker]

The FIA MUST come out and declare that they will apply the rules as they should in the future. If Alonso had stalled his engine, it could've been Zanardi all over again - or worse.

Double waved yellows are no joke.

[FoxHound]

To this day, I never saw a driver faster than a car. I still will never see the day.

Massa and Raikkonen may not ultimately be up to Hamilton's level, but the chasm will never be as big as a host of other variables that faced all 3 in 2008.
The end result is that the Ferrari had 8 poles, and so did the McLaren. Therefore both as quick as the other.

[FoxHound]

The FIA MUST come out and declare that they will apply the rules as they should in the future. If Alonso had stalled his engine, it could've been Zanardi all over again - or worse.

Double waved yellows are no joke.

Should they enforce the 107% rule and get both Red Bulls, Force India's and Bottas to start at the back of the grid?
Rules are rules right?

[Moose]

And yet, both cars had 8 poles. So how did you come to this conclusion?

Because, as I said above - the Ferrari was being driven by two somewhat middle of the line drivers, not anyone at the top end of the field. Both Massa and Kimi have proven subsequently to not be even close to the level of Alonso or Vettel. Hamilton has shown that he's up there with Alonso.

experts and computer models agree that 2007 Ferrari was better car, and 2008 Mclaren was better. to say that massa and kimi then were mediocre drivers simply not fair. kimi was hugely fast while he cared, and massa was never the same after that spring...
hamilton is fast but he has issues.

I don't think it's fair to simply put this down to "Kimi doesn't care any more".
1) It's been repeatedly stated, including by the man himself that his motivation level is no different to then
2) Massa's relative performance to the top end drivers subsequently has been somewhat similar to Kimi's - good, but not up with the best.

If Kimi were simply more motivated back then, you'd expect to see Kimi dominating Massa, but you don't. Instead, you see two somewhat middle of the road drivers battling each other in a very good car, and a very good driver in a less good car being able to beat them to the championship due to a combination of factors including worse drivers at Ferrari, no team mate to compete with, being a better driver, etc.

[Webber2011]

Hey guys, I've been through the last 10 pages and couldn't see it mentioned, but forgive me if it's already been discussed.

Can someone explain to me the problem Max had in Quali when he said he had "lost the synch again" please ?
I assume this is a gearbox problem and did read that they have to 'synch" the gears at the start of the weekend.

Would be great if one of you could explain it further for me.

Thank you

[Tom145145]

.... I think clarity on flags should be given to the teams and drivers from the FIA. l believe that if double yellows are passed on a lap that sector should be abandoned, surely if you are preparing to stop a car you it should look like your driving back to the pits.

[SR71]

Because, as I said above - the Ferrari was being driven by two somewhat middle of the line drivers, not anyone at the top end of the field. Both Massa and Kimi have proven subsequently to not be even close to the level of Alonso or Vettel. Hamilton has shown that he's up there with Alonso.

Sorry, you cannot say Car X is better than car Y because driver A is so much better than driver B. It's subjective, and Hamilton had an advantage of not having to fight his own team mate.

Once again - not saying that circumstances didn't conspire to make him champion, much like they did in '07 to make Kimi champion, but the McLaren was absolutely not the better car.

I think it's entirely reasonable to observe driver comparisons in the same car, and draw the conclusion that Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel are on a similar level, but that Massa and Kimi are significantly below that level, and that as a result it's reasonable to infer that the Ferrari was a better car being driven by worse drivers in '08.

This sounds reasonable. Unless you consider the fact that any reasonable fan understands that Alonso wouldnt be a 2X WDC unless merc's engine failed Kimi in both those seasons.

However, Massa's engine could have failed him every race for 10 seasons in a row and he would have no impact on Alonso's WDC count. To repeat, Alonso's 2X WDC are only becaue Merc V8 failed.

Otherwise, the faster driver (Kimi) would have won and without the illegal mass damper.

[RedNEO]

Sorry, you cannot say Car X is better than car Y because driver A is so much better than driver B. It's subjective, and Hamilton had an advantage of not having to fight his own team mate.

Once again - not saying that circumstances didn't conspire to make him champion, much like they did in '07 to make Kimi champion, but the McLaren was absolutely not the better car.

I think it's entirely reasonable to observe driver comparisons in the same car, and draw the conclusion that Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel are on a similar level, but that Massa and Kimi are significantly below that level, and that as a result it's reasonable to infer that the Ferrari was a better car being driven by worse drivers in '08.

This sounds reasonable. Unless you consider the fact that any reasonable fan understands that Alonso wouldnt be a 2X WDC unless merc's engine failed Kimi in both those seasons.

However, Massa's engine could have failed him every race for 10 seasons in a row and he would have no impact on Alonso's WDC count. To repeat, Alonso's 2X WDC are only becaue Merc V8 failed.

Otherwise, the faster driver (Kimi) would have won and without the illegal mass damper.

Hahaha what on earth? You should have posted this comment before 2014 happened LOL

[zac510]

A driver's 'massive lift' is a bit like a real estate agent's 'moments from the station'. A completely indeterminable amount of time

Hey guys, I've been through the last 10 pages and couldn't see it mentioned, but forgive me if it's already been discussed.

Can someone explain to me the problem Max had in Quali when he said he had "lost the synch again" please ?
I assume this is a gearbox problem and did read that they have to 'synch" the gears at the start of the weekend.

Would be great if one of you could explain it further for me.

Thank you

As I understand it, the onboard gearbox ECU pre-selects the next gear based on the position of the car on the track. So if you're leaving the final corner in 4th gear, the ECU will preselect 5th gear so the upshift will be near-to instantaneous.
If the car has lost sync then some kind of scenario such as, if the car thinks it's leaving the penultimate corner then the gearbox will prepare to downshift for the final corner, when the driver is actually wanting to upshift because he's leaving the final corner. Thus when the driver requests the upshift, it has to un-select 3rd before it can select 5th and some acceleration is lost.
(note I didn't actually check the gears used for the Hungaroring corners, these are just examples!)

[dans79]

The FIA MUST come out and declare that they will apply the rules as they should in the future. If Alonso had stalled his engine, it could've been Zanardi all over again - or worse.

Double waved yellows are no joke.

Ah please stop! Too many drama queens in here jeez

No, we have to many people who don't want to hear, or can't handle the truth.

It shouldn't matter if it was Lewis, Nico, Vettel, Alonso, Ric, Max or any other driver. If you break a safety rule, the FIA should penalize you heavily period.

[max_speed]

i loved the quail. Rain makes it exciting. i think driver's fan should not complain. credits to rosberg for having presence of mind in such a situation. if lewis/ricciardo/verstappen or any one else is great , he will win the race. lewis was bit lucky he did not go out in Q2. it was borderline case for him in Q2.overall very exciting session. hope it rains again today.

[Sevach]

Can this be proven? If so, no case to answer for Ros.

You could just watch the pole lap onboard, by the time Rosberg gets there, the thing isn't even green, it's just off like there's nothing to worry about.

[siskue2005]

What are the chance of rain today?
My android app shows 60% chance of rain at 12 pm
any info on it?

[Webber2011]

A driver's 'massive lift' is a bit like a real estate agent's 'moments from the station'. A completely indeterminable amount of time

Hey guys, I've been through the last 10 pages and couldn't see it mentioned, but forgive me if it's already been discussed.

Can someone explain to me the problem Max had in Quali when he said he had "lost the synch again" please ?
I assume this is a gearbox problem and did read that they have to 'synch" the gears at the start of the weekend.

Would be great if one of you could explain it further for me.

Thank you

As I understand it, the onboard gearbox ECU pre-selects the next gear based on the position of the car on the track. So if you're leaving the final corner in 4th gear, the ECU will preselect 5th gear so the upshift will be near-to instantaneous.
If the car has lost sync then some kind of scenario such as, if the car thinks it's leaving the penultimate corner then the gearbox will prepare to downshift for the final corner, when the driver is actually wanting to upshift because he's leaving the final corner. Thus when the driver requests the upshift, it has to un-select 3rd before it can select 5th and some acceleration is lost.
(note I didn't actually check the gears used for the Hungaroring corners, these are just examples!)

Thanks mate.
Since my original post asking the question I have investigated it a bit more, but that is a great explanation.

Much appreciated =D>

*Edit*

P.s. Would you mind if I was to share this on the Autosport forum ?

[RedNEO]

The FIA MUST come out and declare that they will apply the rules as they should in the future. If Alonso had stalled his engine, it could've been Zanardi all over again - or worse.

Double waved yellows are no joke.

Ah please stop! Too many drama queens in here jeez

No, we have to many people who don't want to hear, or can't handle the truth.

It shouldn't matter if it was Lewis, Nico, Vettel, Alonso, Ric, Max or any other driver. If you break a safety rule, the FIA should penalize you heavily period.

Maybe just let the people who deal with that worry about that, that's there job afterall. It's easy to shout and scream behind a computer screen because nobody can put a name to a face. What rule did Rosberg break? He lifted, and nobody was hurt so what's the problem now?