2017 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, April 14-16

[Wass85]

Yes, just download the Sky F1 1080p HD TV show. Qually session and post-Qually session will do fine.

I watched qualifying and there was no footage of Hamilton on his last run in Q3.

[giantfan10]

Yes, just download the Sky F1 1080p HD TV show. Qually session and post-Qually session will do fine.

I watched qualifying and there was no footage of Hamilton on his last run in Q3.

If i was you i would disregard the nonsense... Hamilton more than likely pushed the button too soon for DRS and got nothing... there was nothing wrong with his car and it was never mentioned by Hamilton.... what we have here is Hamilton fans coming up with creative excuses as to why he wasnt on pole.

[Wass85]

I've read on Autosport that he didn't have DRS in the second zone yet had it on the back straight, Hamilton contradicts this by saying he didn't have it at all during the second half of the lap.

[matt_b]

Sounds to me that Mercedes need to work on these bizarre qualifying gremlins again. Good thing they're testing tomorrow, should also give them time to improve tyre life at high temps.

[CHT]

The difference between Merc and Ferrari is in the driver pairing. Ferrari case, they have 2 very popular heavy weight world champions who I believe are equally expensive. Whereas for current Merc, Bottas is light weight compare to Lewis, so its natural to give Lewis some added advantage.

[Wass85]

Are you suggesting that Vettel isn't number 1 at Ferrari?

... China showed they are free to race.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

NO, I'm stating it. And if you had one iota of common sense, you'd acknowledge it!

Yes I'll happily acknowledge that you are being silly. Thankyou for the opportunity.

You're being the silly one, China showed they are free to race.

Well, it's a matter of time (not too long I am sure) before it becomes obvious. For now, you can argue they are free to fight. We have seen that happen plenty of times in 2015 and 2016.

After the year of 2007 and 2010, it's only 2014,15 and 16, where we saw team mates were free to fight. What Mercedes did in the past 3 years, was ONLY BECAUSE there was no one fighting with them. The only contribution from Merc management, is THAT THEY ALLOWED a fight between their drivers in the interest of F1 show. If that would have been Ferrari, I doubt if they would have. They would have secured the WDC before the Summer break. They never allowed Barrichello to fight Michael (it's another story that even if they would have, the lousy driver would have really fought) when they had dominating cars in the early 2000s.

[iotar__]

Yes I'll happily acknowledge that you are being silly. Thankyou for the opportunity.

You're being the silly one, China showed they are free to race.

Well, it's a matter of time (not too long I am sure) before it becomes obvious. For now, you can argue they are free to fight. We have seen that happen plenty of times in 2015 and 2016.

You can argue whatever you want, whether Earth is flat or 2+2=22 reality remains the same:

- Mercedes used team orders twice and disadvantaged his team mate three times (pitstop, tyre strategy and bizarre tyre pressure) in the third race of the season when Bottas was quicker in Q, nailed start and was leading the race while Hamilton lost position at the start and got himself a stupid pitlane penalty.
- All that for pathetic second place and 3 points gain
- Lost the win too. This is just repeating time so:

If it was about challenging for the win as you're desperately trying to pretend Hamilton should have given back the position Mercedes gifted him five times and he didn't deserve.

"No, you see, he was quicker" ( just in case):
- You're behind on merit, quicker and you can't overtake = you are not quicker, you lose on merit.
- So what? Rosberg was quicker here in '14, Spain and especially Hungary. Didn't care about team orders and Mercedes wins then? I thought so. That's where they were "free to race". Not at Monaco '16 though. See the pattern?

[SiLo]

I'd reply with some sense but you wouldn't listen.

[Phil]

Couple of questions-

1) Vettel had to fight Raikkonen in China for track position not because of a poor start or qualifying but because of an ill timed SC. Yet, while it was clear to all and sundry that Vettel was the faster Ferrari driver, he still had to pass him on track.

That IMO was quite surprising. I think however that whatever the reasons were for keeping Kimi ahead in that instance is that it will not be done again, especially when it is clear that one is holding up the other with little chance of getting past with a legitimate move.

2) Hamilton made a mistake in Q3 because of which he was behind Bottas, then had a mediocre start and the team then got Bottas out of the way so that he could challenge Vettel. It's clear to me that Mercedes made the right call by letting Hamilton get past Bottas, but once it was clear he wasn't going to get Vettel why didn't they swap them around?

Perhaps because Bottas was 20 seconds down the road and actually having a Hamilton slow down at that point would have been a farce, anyway you put it. I actually think either way, team orders or not, Hamilton would have ended up ahead either way. The pace differential was just too big. And Mercedes did try to play fair; After the SC, Bottas was on the "faster" SS tire, Hamilton behind on S, yet it was Hamilton who was shadowing Bottas at a gap of 1.3s. They did tell Bottas he had 2 laps to "close the gap to Vettel (e.g. speed up)" but even though he didn't/couldn't, they still didn't issue a team order until much later in the stint when Hamilton closed the gap to under a second and Bottas tires were going off. IMO, this "lack of action" cost us a much closer battle even with the 5 seconds penalty Hamilton had.

On the last stint, Hamilton was just so much quicker, Bottas was never going to keep him behind. He was closing in on nearly 2 seconds a lap at that point. The team orders only meant that the time lost behind Bottas was kept to an absolute minimum. Therefore, it would have been unreasonable to swap the cars back around again and assume Hamilton would have never got past. That is absurd, given he ended up finishing what 20 seconds up the road.

Honestly, in my opinion, it would be smart of Ferrari and Mercedes-Benz to establish a pecking order because it seems to be that sort of championship but I would understand if they allow the guys to race till the summer break before making such calls.

I'm not per say a fan or supporter of team orders. The last 3 years, Mercedes was far too dominant so it was always a 2 horse race. In that sense, team orders were wrong any way you put it. In theory, even the order at Monaco 2016 was wrong in that sense, though to some degree understandable, given it seemed Rosberg was having a technical issue (and only on those grounds).

I also get that team orders sometimes need to act as a form to defuse a potentially dangerous situation. Lets take China and Kimi and Vet. There were no team orders, so Vettel who was clearly stuck, had to apply more risk with a dive up the inside. In the end, it was not a problem, because Kimi reacted and left space. What if Vet had judged it wrong and locked up? Would he have plowed through Kimi, taking out both cars? What if Kimi had not left space?

Sometimes by issuing team orders, you are maximizing your effort as a team to get the best possible result. By having the team step in, they diffuse potentially dangerous moves. Is it right or wrong? Depends on your point of view. As a team, yes, absolutely. No one is bigger than the team. As a f1 fan? Perhaps not. But on the other hand, do we want to see Lewis and Bottas fighting it out for position 2, ruining a potential great battle at the front for the race victory?

Had Mercedes acted sooner during that second stint, we may have just gotten that.

[hichamo]

i want to say this, but only smart people would understand.
a GP weekend is allways full of surprise, starts from qual till race day.
sometimes SC, accident, beeing held by another driver, undercut , pit wall strategy ect...
at the end of the race who ever stand on the First step on the podium, is the driver who did the better job of the rest.so he is the one who deserve to win.
so stop saying ifs, their is allways if this and that, its so easy after the race.
vet qual 3, and won , that's it, he deserve the win , end of story.
Ferrari are back!! yes they are and more to come.
Mercedes are struggling!!! yes they are, long wheel base and they eat their rear tire like chewing gum.

[Sieper]

Isn't it just so that Ferrari and Merc are so close, and Vettel and Hamilton are so close that it is things as who has the best timing/luck when a Safety Car arrives on scene that already decides who will win the race?

in China Ferrari took the gamble first (VSC) and then after Merc en RB waited it out a full blown SC situation came for the second time and thus they (Merc and RB) suddenly had the superior strategy. This time around Vettel again took the more aggressive approach and as the SC car came in again (but this time on the perfect time for him) Vettel took the lead and won the race.

They are so close that the last two races were decided more on if/when SC came then on driver skill, team strategy.

[turbof1]

I find this discussion about whether or not Hamilton having to concede the place back to Bottas quite silly, and even sillier that we are speaking of a n.1 and n.2 driver. I'll discuss the events in chronological order:

-First off, a parallel is being drawn to the race in China where Vettel had to fight his way past Raikkonen instead of ordering Raikkonen to let him through. I think this is actually a mistake from Ferrari, which is quite surprising as that team never had much of an issue with team orders (but this could be due Arrivabene's different approach). Maybe they wanted to give Raikkonen a fair shot on getting past Ricciardo, but this took way too long.
-Regarding Hamilton's DRS: he probably pushed the button too early. In that case, that is his mistake. Period.
-Now regarding letting Hamilton past: Bottas simply did not have the pace, that much was clear. That has nothing to do with driver preference; if the situation was turned Hamilton would have done the same, and I personally believe he would have allowed Bottas through as Hamilton should understand the potential on a victory and crucial team points are very important now as Mercedes is not dominating anymore, and his relation with Bottas is not soured as it was with Rosberg.
-Furthermore, Hamilton was right up to the end in the reach of Vettel to capitalize if something happened with the latter. It actually happened in the past where during the 2011 Canadian GP Button overtook Vettel when the latter went off the track in the last lap. You can't order Hamilton in that situation to give the place back, especially not if Bottas is 15s back.

[Bill_Kar]

I find this discussion about whether or not Hamilton having to concede the place back to Bottas quite silly, and even sillier that we are speaking of a n.1 and n.2 driver. I'll discuss the events in chronological order:

-First off, a parallel is being drawn to the race in China where Vettel had to fight his way past Raikkonen instead of ordering Raikkonen to let him through. I think this is actually a mistake from Ferrari, which is quite surprising as that team never had much of an issue with team orders (but this could be due Arrivabene's different approach). Maybe they wanted to give Raikkonen a fair shot on getting past Ricciardo, but this took way too long.
-Regarding Hamilton's DRS: he probably pushed the button too early. In that case, that is his mistake. Period.
-Now regarding letting Hamilton past: Bottas simply did not have the pace, that much was clear. That has nothing to do with driver preference; if the situation was turned Hamilton would have done the same, and I personally believe he would have allowed Bottas through as Hamilton should understand the potential on a victory and crucial team points are very important now as Mercedes is not dominating anymore, and his relation with Bottas is not soured as it was with Rosberg.
-Furthermore, Hamilton was right up to the end in the reach of Vettel to capitalize if something happened with the latter. It actually happened in the past where during the 2011 Canadian GP Button overtook Vettel when the latter went off the track in the last lap. You can't order Hamilton in that situation to give the place back, especially not if Bottas is 15s back.

I would give you thousands of likes.Shame I can't

[turbof1]

I'd be much happier if thousands of people use common sense instead .

Just regarding Bottas: despite the issues with his pace, I think he really has shown his worth. Taking that pole was no easy feat considering who he is up against, and his first stint was compromised by tyre pressures, and perhaps the 2 consecutive stints were compromised as well by something else. Give him a couple of races more to extract more from the car, and he might get in a truly competitive position.