2017 Austrian Grand Prix, Spielberg 7-9 Jul

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Ah, that explains a lot, you are US based, so you get shitty coverage. Not our fault that they don't know what a jumpstart is. The stewards couldn't act on it because it is a gray area in the rules. That doesn't mean that it isn't a jump start. Just like to have your telemetry prove Hamilton didn't break test, there is video footage where you see Bottas moving under red lights. Hence a jump start...

Here a slow motion video where you see the car starting under reds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYzquTHpa-Q

Or if you require a zoom in: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tken_aR8bD8

Wow you guys get great tv coverage during the race, zoomed in and super duper slow mo? What I saw and the world saw was Bottas didn't leave the box until after the red lights were out. The clips showing he moved before the lights going out are nice, but as stated, Bottas was well withing the rules. Still not enough for Vettel and a lot of Vettel's fans to accept however.

It would be nice if people used the same ruler to measure things but a lot don't. The problem is even worse the the "passionate" fans.

Wow, you accept Hamilton Telemetry, but not cold hard video footage. It is the same. It is proof... Yet you reject one, and deny the other. How much biased/fanboy can you be?

Looks like you are confusing yourself. In case of Hamilton's baku incident AND in case of Bottas' start in Austria, it is the data from the team and FIA that was taken to make a decision. In both cases, video footage was deemed of lesser significance. So you see, there is consistency there.

[ClarkBT11]

After replays:
- Perez after bad start had an overlooked overtake on Hamilton and Ocon, tight line and a skilful driver

You seemed to of overlooked my post on page 32.

The Perez overtake cost Hamilton a podium.

[Phil]

I am all for consistency. At first i was of the opinion that the start should be reinvestigated and a possible post penalty applied, but the above clearly demonstrates and factually points out that there is precedence and that gambling on the lights is allowed. The case is closed.

[strad]

Ah, that explains a lot, you are US based, so you get shitty coverage. Not our fault that they don't know what a jumpstart is.

the clock says he was .2 seconds late. Enough to lose a drag race.
Since when do you think you can't risk a red light by trying to time a perfect start?
You can insult my coverage all you want, you can't change the clock.

[CBeck113]

I can't believe that the fan boy fractions can find something to argue about every week. It was clearly stated that VB's start was perfectly legal, even with the movement before the lights went out - great start, I can't wait for someone to try and imitate it in Silverstone and screw it up royally (yeah, I'm lookin' at you Seb ) - that would be like dropping a nuclear warhead in this forum. On the one side I'm pretty satisfied with this season - Mercedes and Ferrari are going head-to-head, and now RB is close enough to snatch away points for any error from the other four cars...this can only get better. Mercedes has a qualifying advantage, but cannot use this extra power very long, so the race pace from both teams is very similar and will vary due to the tracks and weather. One important point from this race: Ferrari needs to improve their starts, otherwise they'll be passed by the Bulls and, if they keep improving, will lose touch with the Mercedes in the race, ruining Seb's chance at the title (I sadly do not believe that Kimi can help them win the WCC, he's not consistant enough over an entire race to bring home enough points when the differences are so small).

[dans79]

Looks like you are confusing yourself. In case of Hamilton's baku incident AND in case of Bottas' start in Austria, it is the data from the team and FIA that was taken to make a decision. In both cases, video footage was deemed of lesser significance. So you see, there is consistency there.

I think the real issue is confirmation bias, and the lack of knowledge regarding how bad the video footage & telemetry data actually is, regardless of what country you live in.

[Shrieker]

Raikkonen is a proper No.2 now, much like Irvine and Barrichello were. And I bet he doesn't like it one bit. Bottas letting his faster team mate @Bahrain go to have a chance to catch Vettel doesn't compare to this in any shape or form. Ferrari used Raikkonen as a road block and nothing else... And people were complaining about Lewis asking the team to slow Bottas @ Baku so he could have a proper nab at Vettel. I wonder what they would like to say about Ferrari's tactics in Austria. On another note, it will be more meaningful for Hamilton if he wins the title without intra team help.

[Wass85]

One thing that nobody seems to mention about Q3, Bottas on his pole lap got a nice helping hand from a Force India's slipstream after it left the pits.

I wonder if that was key to his great 1st sector, how much time could that have possibly given him?

[Wass85]

I've just seen the sector times and Bottas and Hamilton basically set the same first sector times so the tow from the Force India basically gave him nothing, Bottas gained all the time in the middle sector.

[djos]

Someone can explain me why this is not a Jumpstart. Maybe the video is different from the reality.
https://twitter.com/darcyf1/status/884027507703402496
By the way i think if the stewards has yet said that is not a jump start, no further penalty are possible. For me it is a jump start.

I'm not sure why folks are getting wound up over this, Top fuel dragster drivers have reaction times measured in 100'ths of a second, Bottas reacted in a mere 2/10th's of a second.

[Shrieker]

@Djos,

But the wheels are clearly turning before the lights are out, which means he didn't really react to the rights but just anticipated them. And he slightly misjudged it as well; as is clearly seen in the video.

[djos]

Vettel said that he had no good balance in the first stint and it was way better in the second. And Bottas struggled with his tyres in the end.

Exactly, so its difficult to judge the real gap between both. I still think that Mercedes was faster but probably not so clear as we saw in the first stint.

Forgot to mention Ricciardo´s great pace. Rb seems to be closing the gap very fastly, at least if we speak about race pace.

Agreed, it'll be very interesting to see what Mobil's new fuel brings to the party at Silverstone - I think 2/10th's was mentioned somewhere.

[Shrieker]

https://twitter.com/darcyf1/status/884027507703402496

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXdAPDKFR4I

I've watched this video now, and it very clearly looks different from the one above. I wonder whether someone's trying to manipulate people into thinking it was a jump start when it wasn't... Or more simply, the frame rates are different, so one shows the wheels move before the lights are out, while the other less fps doesn't.

[djos]

@Djos,

But the wheels are clearly turning before the lights are out, which means he didn't really react to the rights but just anticipated them. And he slightly misjudged it as well; as is clearly seen in the video.

The only reason I'm not convinced by the videos on youtube is that without the raw feed and precision timestamps it's nearly impossible to create a composite video which shows the situation perfectly. Basically we'd need FOM to do it as only they have the raw footage.

PS. Im only giving Bottas the benefit of the doubt due to the track timing loop data, the video's on youtube certainly looks bad but until FOM create a precision composite video, I'll side with the timing loop.

[djos]

https://twitter.com/darcyf1/status/884027507703402496

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXdAPDKFR4I

I've watched this video now, and it very clearly looks different from the one above. I wonder whether someone's trying to manipulate people into thinking it was a jump start when it wasn't...

Yeah I saw that on Sky too, at 50 frames per second (Sky UK broadcast 50hz HD video), iirc it takes 2/10th's of a second between 1 frame of video and the next. Bottas didn't jump the start, he nailed it - case closed.

EDIT: btw NBC SN broadcast video @ 60hz so if the FOM feed is natively 50hz (anyone know if this is correct?) requires something like a 3-2 telecine pull down process which may distort results when we are talking about a 20ms timeframe.