Renault race-fixing at Singapore 2008

[tarzoon]

Yes it can happen and has happened before. I recall a chap in red car deliberately crashing into another car taking them both off the track. Twice.

At least Nelson only crashed into a wall.

Yes, and in the 50s and 60s they raced with a pottie on their heads, no seatbelt and funny moustaches.

Now everything is susceptible of being too dangerous. Soon the exhaust fumes will be too dangerous also, so the GPs will be held 50 miles away from any sort of civilisation.

[Miguel]

Anyway, we already have 2 guilties: Flavio and NPjr. One for giving cheating orders and the other for executing them to secure his place for a few more GPs

wait a minute! I speak as it was something proved beyond any doubt!?!?!?! As I said (and not only me) few pages before, we have only NPjr's word. Unless Flav ot Pat confess, or FAI has something more we don't know about, there is no way this could be proven. Face it.

It is proven by the FACT that FLAV has quit/been shown the door.

I find it terribly funny that you write FACT all in capital letters together with "proven" when you don't even know if Flavio was fired or if he quit.

[ISLAMATRON]

wait a minute! I speak as it was something proved beyond any doubt!?!?!?! As I said (and not only me) few pages before, we have only NPjr's word. Unless Flav ot Pat confess, or FAI has something more we don't know about, there is no way this could be proven. Face it.

It is proven by the FACT that FLAV has quit/been shown the door.

I find it terribly funny that you write FACT all in capital letters together with "proven" when you don't even know if Flavio was fired or if he quit.

That is funny indeed, good pick up, either way he is no longer the head of Renault F1, and it aint because the car was dog slow this year, it was because The Singapore Fix was real and He had prior knowledge, that alone makes him guilty.

[ss.vamsikrishna]

how come Mr Alonso: who is multi talented:
2006 we came to know he was a whiner
2007 we came to know he is a cry baby
2008 we know he is a cheater...


is so silent , and in spite he was part of this crime nobody is pointing fingers at him...so he can do whatever he wants and only people surrounding to him has to suffer.. [-X

[Giblet]

We don't know he is a cheater, unless you are privy to info we don't have.

You state your opinion like it's everyones.

2006 - Was robbed of the mass damper half way through the season, and was pissed off that his legal car became illegal later on. "F1 is not anymore a sport" he said. That is hardly whining, that is the championship leading drive of the time telling like it is.

2007 - again your opinion, what is the difference between whiner and cry baby?

2008 - Flav and Piquet cheated Alonso was the recipient, although he won the next race on pure merit.

Baseless anti fanism.

[Michiba]

how come Mr Alonso: who is multi talented:
2006 we came to know he was a whiner
2007 we came to know he is a cry baby
2008 we know he is a cheater...


is so silent , and in spite he was part of this crime nobody is pointing fingers at him...so he can do whatever he wants and only people surrounding to him has to suffer.. [-X

You're making other anti-fanboys in here look half intelligent with these baseless opinions...

[ISLAMATRON]

how come Mr Alonso: who is multi talented:
2006 we came to know he was a whiner
2007 we came to know he is a cry baby
2008 we know he is a cheater...


is so silent , and in spite he was part of this crime nobody is pointing fingers at him...so he can do whatever he wants and only people surrounding to him has to suffer.. [-X

He may indeed be a whiner & a cry baby(most of the drivers are) but he has yet to be proven to be invovled in this deliberate crashing scheme of Flav's.

But Alonso is clearly a cheater, evidence being qually in Hungary '07... so yes multi talented.

[Mr Alcatraz]

We don't know he is a cheater, unless you are privy to info we don't have.

You state your opinion like it's everyones.

2006 - Was robbed of the mass damper half way through the season, and was pissed off that his legal car became illegal later on. "F1 is not anymore a sport" he said. That is hardly whining, that is the championship leading drive of the time telling like it is.

2007 - again your opinion, what is the difference between whiner and cry baby?

2008 - Flav and Piquet cheated Alonso was the recipient, although he won the next race on pure merit.

Baseless anti fanism.

+1

how come Mr Alonso: who is multi talented:
2006 we came to know he was a whiner
2007 we came to know he is a cry baby
2008 we know he is a cheater...


is so silent , and in spite he was part of this crime nobody is pointing fingers at him...so he can do whatever he wants and only people surrounding to him has to suffer.. [-X

Iago:
O, beware, my lord, of jealousy;
It is the green-ey'd monster, which doth mock
The meat it feeds on. That cuckold lives in bliss,
Who, certain of his fate, loves not his wronger:
But O, what damnèd minutes tells he o'er
Who dotes, yet doubts, suspects, yet strongly loves!


Othello:
O misery!

[ss.vamsikrishna]

So guys you say...he came from 15th to 1st with out overtaking a single car and his team mate crashes when he pits...so you say alonso thinks it was all a miracle which god has designed for him...you guys are so naive....

[raceman]

Baseless anti fanism.

+1

I agree with you

really, totally baseless and "possessed" comments

[Michiba]

So guys you say...he came from 15th to 1st with out overtaking a single car and his team mate crashes when he pits...so you say alonso thinks it was all a miracle which god has designed for him...you guys are so naive....

No one has denied that NP's crash hugely benefitted him. Please read the posts and understand what is being discussed mate. for --- sake

[Mr Alcatraz]

So guys you say...he came from 15th to 1st with out overtaking a single car and his team mate crashes when he pits...so you say alonso thinks it was all a miracle which god has designed for him...you guys are so naive....

For starters I am not an Alonso fan, but I recognize the talent!
Let's say he did have some knowledge of the crash conspiracy.
It does not diminish his talent in and of itself.
You've seen clear to somehow form a character profile that this F1 fans see as being argued with a background
based on an unsubstantiated, prejudice, and quite
frankly a false premise. There is no logical correspondence between the years Fred won 2
Wdc’s, finished a close third,and imho drove a dog of a car to some pretty impressive results!
That's all. You’re dogging a guy for the sake of loosing venom!
Not becoming an F1 aficionado

Once again I defer to "The Bard"


Malvolio:
"Be not afraid of greatness: some are born great, some achieve greatness, and
some have greatness thrust upon 'em."


Twelfth Night (II, v, 156-159)

[SZ]

Then why do War Crimes exist, Eddie?

A nice analogy with FIA crimes there... both are applied selectively, and in either case, whoever wins the battle writes the history books...

I recall a chap in red car deliberately crashing into another car taking them both off the track. Twice.

Your memory must be fading if that's the net sum of the marginal on-track antics you remember about that certain Red Baron

My sense is that if all human behavior in Formula 1 were formally investigated then the last person banned from the paddock would have to turn out the lights because there would be nobody left.

Very true.

It is proven by the FACT that FLAV has quit/been shown the door.

Correlation can't ever prove prove any relationship between two unique events by definition. For instance, allegations of race fixing becoming public and Flav leaves Renault. Two unique events with, given their low statistical confidence (a sample of a population of one instance alone), could only form the loosest of correlations.

However there are many instances of threads that you've become involved in and the capacity for reasoned debate in these threads have gone completely to --- shortly after your arrival... whilst correlation can't prove anything, any observations one could conclude of course have a far greater statistical merit.

Of course, this doesn't prove at all that you're an unreasonable forum member, unless of course your assertion that Flav leaving Renault is certain proof of the cheating allegations, in their totality, being true. In which case it's proven with far greater statistical certainty that you're wholly unreasonable.

QED (or prove it otherwise...)

[xpensive]

Truer words never spoken SZ.

[gcdugas]

No one has denied that NP's crash hugely benefitted him. [FA] Please read the posts and understand what is being discussed mate. for --- sake

It is not uncommon for a team to have their drivers on two different strategies. And it is not uncommon for a team to gamble on there being a safety car. Especially at certain circuits like Canada which has had a SC for the last few races. We don't know what FA knows, or more importantly knew at the time. If Whiting and the FIA knew something they couldn't prove last December it is not a great stretch that FA also found out some time afterward. Was he complicit on the plot is the question. Even NP Sr. if back pedaling about what FA knew at the time of the race. And he says only that FA should have know before he went out with 15 laps of fuel. But like I said, FA or any of his engineers could have all been told they were gambling on a SC which is a reasonable approach when starting way back on the grid and racing on a street circuit that has little overtaking like Monaco or Valencia. And it remains to be proven that anyone but FB, NP and PS knew about the plan to crash. And even NP Jr. who would love to tank FA's career isn't saying that FA knew at the time.

And the sad part is that all this wouldn't have happened if NP Jr. was a faster driver getting more points for the team and scoring regularly. If that was the case he would have never agreed to such a plan no matter who brought it up. And isn't it sad that his 2009 contract had a clause that he could be booted if he didn't score 40% as many points as FA. Imagine negotiating that... His agent and father sitting down and bargaining for a figure of 25% and Renault wanting 50-60% in the contract before they agreed upon 40%. I would be ashamed to have such a paltry figure in my contract. No matter what you may think of LH's 2007 season, he would never accept scoring 40% as many points as his teammate no matter if he had just won two WDCs on the trot. And I dare say Nico would never have such a clause in his contract either. For Sr. to put that in the contract must only be interpreted as a giant vote of no-confidence in his son. How can NP Jr. ever have a shred of self respect with this kind of thing negotiated? I would say that getting such a low regard from your own father is more psychologically debilitating than any amount of abuse that Flav could ever pour on him.

Whether Flav and PS thought up the plan because it became clear to then that all the help to the team that they could ever expect from NP was a few crumbs and some seriously bent cars, or whether NP thought it up because it was something he could offer the team.... well it is all a pretty sad commentary on NP Jr's driving and his ability to contribute to the team. All this is apart from the ethics. Even if FB, PS and NP Jr all had ZERO ethics, if NP Jr was faster such a plan would not have been considered because NP Jr would be solely focussed on getting his own points if in fact he was fast enough to achieve them. Since he was not fast enough either FB and PS were able to convince him that he could "contribute" to the team by crashing or NP Jr. suggested it because he knew getting points on merit was beyond his ability.