Italian GP 2011 - Autodromo Nazionale Monza

[Mandrake]

However, If you follow the letter of the rules Schu should have been investigated and penalised, but because the other driver is you know who the Stewards thought that no action should be taken.

If we follow the rules then there is no need for a penalty or investigation. The rules state that only one defensive move is allowed. Schumacher closed the inside to fend of Hamilton. Hamilton could have driven up on the outside had he had a car with higher TopSpeed. Since he didn'T have such a car, he wasn't able to go by. Schumacher's move back to the racing line is not a defensive move then, just a move back to the racing line. Hamilton was never blocked in such a case.

Even on the main straight where there were multiple "incidents" it was all according to the rules. Hamilton tried to pass out of parabolica, MSC didn't react, Hamilton couldn't pass due to slowness, gets back into slipstream, MSC THEN covers the inside and leaves Hamilton behind only to feed back to the racing line under braking......Hamilton was far enough behind to not be blocked.

This is why I think there was no investigation and should be no investigation. All the situation was only possible because the McLarens were carrying way too much wing/ way too short gearing.

[FW17]

Reason Stewards got on the radio to Ross Brawn is - MSC was making LH look silly, it got even worse when JB went past both of them.

[sriraj1031]

I suspect Vettel has a better car. Not in major parts, but in things you can't see like engine maps and qualifying maps.
Wouldn't be surprised if the car had some illegal trick up it's sleve that Vettel uses in Q3 and in the first 10 laps of the race.
It could be something that compromises the car's reliability, or something that Webber doesn't feel comfortable using.
Whatever it is, it disappears when the race is in an advanced stage and Webber is about even with Vettel on speed.

This is my suspicion. It's not an accusation. I know Vettel is faster, but the cars do behave differently some times. And it's not all about skill either, as you can tell when one driver is squeezing the car near the limit. I've never seen Vettel push that RB7 to the limit, which begs the question of the cars' differing abilities.

Hopefully first paragraph was a joke, anyway why should vettel push the car to the extreme when he is leading the championship and winning quite a lot with comfortable drive. ( Monaco and Barcelona aside) It would surely be crazy for him to push to the limit. Yes he does push himself in qualifying and secures himself the best possible grid slot. exactly what Micheal used to do in his in Ferrari days, push hard initially build up a gap and ease your way to victory

@"Williams f1" nice one there

[marcush.]

Personaly I think your both missing the point, its not the downforce which dictates the speed a car can travel for a given amount of enrgy but the drag, an efficient car will produce more dowforce for the same amount of drag than an inefficient car.

Aero efficiency of a car is not a fixed figure for every configuration, but varies with the car setup, which is why I said the MercGP car is probably more efficient in low downforce config than it is with more downforce.
Simply bolting more downforce on to match the other cars probably makes the car so inefficient it is slower around the circuit.

That efficient car may only be so in very low drag trim for fast circuits, it may have terrible efficiency at high downforce circuits, it's not a set figure but rather a variable map.

I think this is a valid observation .Vettel would not have had any chance if they had tried to match the others with longer gearing and less drag.As basically you do not gain the speed but cut off your strengths .We can conclude that Neweys guys managed to enlarge the operating window of the car by not maintaining the l/d efficiency also for higher average speeds .

[Traction]

Reason Stewards got on the radio to Ross Brawn is - MSC was making LH look silly, it got even worse when JB went past both of them.

[beelsebob]

Reason Stewards got on the radio to Ross Brawn is - MSC was making LH look silly, it got even worse when JB went past both of them.

Aside – as much as you meant this as a joke, I don't disagree, and I'm serious .

[komninosm]

Reason Stewards got on the radio to Ross Brawn is - MSC was making LH look silly, it got even worse when JB went past both of them.

also Schumacher pitted next turn...

PS: did you look at my post with conclusive evidence of Schumacher weaving on the start-finish straight. He made many other illegal moves in other places too. The stewards failed their job there.

[PlatinumZealot]

Reason Stewards got on the radio to Ross Brawn is - MSC was making LH look silly, it got even worse when JB went past both of them.

Because it would have gotten more extreme still somebody ran into the barriers or got a nose cone in his monocoque. Did you see Monaco?

Any enough about LH. I'm tired of seeing threads littered with his name on every single page. I know he is the poster boy of F1 but please.. lets try to at least talk about the other guys every once in a while. (20 pages of LH...you'd think that he is winning the championship!).

[thatnoone]

On the MSC Vs His name that shall not be called (by me). Schu knows it was Hamil... so he played hardball. And when you really check it out Schu has not and would not drive so hard with the other drivers. He knows that the Boss is the best dancing partner.

Maybe that's true, but I like to believe that other than Alonso there really isn't anyone else to race with. Both Alonso and Lewis are the best racers in Formula 1 and the only two to consistently fight rather than have a 2-3 really good overtakes every season. I'd bet Michael raced him that hard because it was actually fun. He hasn't been dicing with Alonso all season and I truly believe he was doing that because Lewis is such a hard guy to defend against. I see nothing wrong with where he placed his car or how he got back on the racing line after he had made his defensive move, he always left just enough room for Lewis to either make it or crash trying to pass. Which is what good defenders and good overtakers do. It was good hard racing from two of the best guys in the business. I'd like to see more of that the rest of the season.

Nothing against Vettel, but one move on Alonso does not make a racer. He's yet to show that he can consistently outrace other drivers in a car that isn't miles ahead of the competition. I'm not saying he doesn't have that talent, it's that he's not shown he does and he's had more than a few opportunities.

good lord i would like to see him have a tussle with michael.. and not i'm letting him off easily.. and also a circuit where merc can flex theirs.. like fighting for the win.. if he thinks alonso gave him a hard time, schumi should really show him a really hard time... cough! good defensive driving cough! sadly we wont see that would we.. sorry off topic..

[PlatinumZealot]

Uncle Shumi wouldn't do that to his dear Nephew.

[ringo]

What kind of loop hole is this?

http://www.planetf1.com/driver/18227/71 ... consulted-

A steward told me after the race that he was very frustrated not to have been consulted during the race, particularly as he takes a very dim view of what he perceived as blocking

'I asked race director Charlie Whiting if the stewards can call up issues for themselves if they are not happy with something they see, and he said: "Absolutely".

'The procedure which did happen was race control spoke with the team and gave a warning which translated into two radio calls from team principal Ross Brawn to Schumacher to leave more space for Hamilton.'

plea bargain right here, and code in red. Hmm.. this sets the stage for serious fixing and manipulation.

Shumacher wasn't passed, he was asked to move over as a nicer penalty.


As for Vettel....

Brundle also added that Sebastian Vettel urged officials to look into his incident with Fernando Alonso. The Red Bull driver was left with very little space after attempting to over the Spaniard and was forced onto the grass at Curva Grande.

Dude won the race and he's whining to stewards becuase he got a little dirt on his socks.
I take back all the ratings of bravery on the overtake.

Shumacher would have made this guy wet him self and short out the KERS.

[ringo]

Reason Stewards got on the radio to Ross Brawn is - MSC was making LH look silly, it got even worse when JB went past both of them.

Nope. Redbull wanted some camera time.

shumacher was making himself look desperate. Though he was probably enjoying the fight.

[Mr Alcatraz]

Dude won the race and he's whining to stewards becuase he got a little dirt on his socks.
I take back all the ratings of bravery on the overtake.

Shumacher would have made this guy wet him self and short out the KERS.

Ringster I'm still trying to wrap my brain around this one. After saying that Alonso forced him onto the grass, in the post race interview (which to me it looks like Alonso may have been guilty of scaring him onto the grass) when asked about it Fred said (not exact words) here at Monza we maybe were a little harder on him than elsewhere. Sorry!
So Alonso apologizes for from what the video appears to show was just balls to the wall racing with room left on the track, and no sudden lunges at him. Vettel goes from the interview room to the stewards after the freakin' guy apologizes.
I'm a little disappointed in that behavior. Maybe I missed something. I'm stopping short of bashing Vettel. I just think it was a little over the top on his behalf. I don't know maybe it's a cultural thing.

[MrBlacky]

For sure, Schumacher did Hamilton let pass, I already noticed that on the live coverage. He was on the left and much slower than all the laps before.

[thatnoone]

Ringster I'm still trying to wrap my brain around this one. After saying that Alonso forced him onto the grass, in the post race interview (which to me it looks like Alonso may have been guilty of scaring him onto the grass) when asked about it Fred said (not exact words) here at Monza we maybe were a little harder on him than elsewhere. Sorry!
So Alonso apologizes for from what the video appears to show was just balls to the wall racing with room left on the track, and no sudden lunges at him. Vettel goes from the interview room to the stewards after the freakin' guy apologizes.
I'm a little disappointed in that behavior. Maybe I missed something. I'm stopping short of bashing Vettel. I just think it was a little over the top on his behalf. I don't know maybe it's a cultural thing.

to be fair. I don't think Seb would do those to any drivers. He's pretty clean with the exception of istanbul & melbourne.. he's very vocal if you remember Spa of 2010 with kubica incident.. did you saw how he talked to the pirelli guy with regards to the blistering.. he was poking him & arguing with him. he gets what he wants.