2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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SoulPancake13
SoulPancake13
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Quantum wrote:
14 Apr 2025, 16:55
SoulPancake13 wrote:
14 Apr 2025, 15:44
Quantum wrote:
14 Apr 2025, 15:35


I'm not advocating either way. But you can't call it insanity.

When last did Lando or Leclerc mug Verstappen like Kimi did in Bahrain for example?
When Leclerc has had the car, he has always competed with Max and pulled off brilliant maneuvers. Also, since when has Max had such a bad car?
Always?

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... zhJZ98myCz

Leclerc was in his 38th race....

I will reiterate again for the benefit of the driver DEFENDORS, I'm not advocating either way. I'm saying its not insanity to have the opinion.
Kimi is a great talent who will win races, but I just don't think it is fair to use a clip of him "mugging" Verstappen on awful hards that had 0 grip - a car couldn't get past Ocon in a Haas - to use as a comparison to others when discussing best driver lineup. He still has some way to go - and that is perfectly ok for such a young driver with a top teammate.

Cs98
Cs98
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Joined: 01 Jul 2022, 11:37

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Quantum wrote:
14 Apr 2025, 15:35
bananapeel23 wrote:
14 Apr 2025, 15:00
Jdn1327 wrote:
14 Apr 2025, 12:49
I gotta say...George and kimi are fast becoming the top driver pairing in F1.
This is an absurd thing to say when the McLaren drivers are so close and Ferrari has Leclerc and Hamilton.

You can make a case that the current Mercedes pairing has the potential to grow and become the best pairing in F1, but you are insane if you claim they are the best right now.

I'm not advocating either way. But you can't call it insanity.


When last did Lando or Leclerc mug Verstappen like Kimi did in Bahrain for example?
I can and I will :lol: He finished 11th in the second fastest car. The guy he "mugged" ended up 5 places ahead. The highlights are nice but in reality this was not a good race for Kimi. Russell and Kimi have the potential to be up there, but Kimi isn't there yet and nor should we expect him to be at this point.

kurtj
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Joined: 30 Nov 2024, 15:04

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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basti313 wrote:
14 Apr 2025, 16:52
No. If they want marketing value, they need a superstar in the car.
Even Kimi would give tons more marketing value than George.
Max is not a bigger brand than Mercedes! Unless if Netherlands is a new market for Mercedes and they are desperate to capture it, then yes. Unlike Michael or Lewis, Max doesn't hold that massive appeal across the globe. Except for being a quick driver, he doesn't have the persona that can appeal to an elite audience that is the target of Mercedes. With a toxic baggage like Jos around, I am not sure if he would ever build that sort of persona.

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Quantum
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Joined: 14 Jan 2017, 00:59

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Cs98 wrote:
14 Apr 2025, 17:39
I can and I will :lol: He finished 11th in the second fastest car. The guy he "mugged" ended up 5 places ahead. The highlights are nice but in reality this was not a good race for Kimi. Russell and Kimi have the potential to be up there, but Kimi isn't there yet and nor should we expect him to be at this point.
Wait, conflating bad luck for driver performance? :-k
I mean totally Antonelli's fault he got done by the safety car :lol:
Let's apply this universally shall we 8)

I'm not saying he's up there. He lined up Verstappen a kipper, how many times has Lando done that and failed?
Worth remembering.

Anyway, that's my allowance of driver ying yang nonsense for the month. Tune in next month for the reply :lol:
"Interplay of triads"

Cs98
Cs98
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Joined: 01 Jul 2022, 11:37

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Quantum wrote:
14 Apr 2025, 18:47
Cs98 wrote:
14 Apr 2025, 17:39
I can and I will :lol: He finished 11th in the second fastest car. The guy he "mugged" ended up 5 places ahead. The highlights are nice but in reality this was not a good race for Kimi. Russell and Kimi have the potential to be up there, but Kimi isn't there yet and nor should we expect him to be at this point.
Wait, conflating bad luck for driver performance? :-k
I mean totally Antonelli's fault he got done by the safety car :lol:
Let's apply this universally shall we 8)

I'm not saying he's up there. He lined up Verstappen a kipper, how many times has Lando done that and failed?
Worth remembering.

Anyway, that's my allowance of driver ying yang nonsense for the month. Tune in next month for the reply :lol:
I'm not conflating anything, I'm looking at the race in its entirety and I think that a more experienced driver could have finagled a much better result there. He got stuck behind slower cars for too long, lost too much time and track position which meant that by the time the SC hit he was already in a bad spot. Remember, there was a point in the first stint where he was P5 on the heels of the front guys, which is where the car belonged.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Seeing where the car is right now, I feel that Australia and Japan could have offered more. I think George was complacent in Australia about letting the leaders (Max in particular) get away, and of course we know what happened in Japanese GP qualifying, but everything I have seen suggest that the Mercedes works on any kind of track in any temperature and had enough performance to be 2nd best at every track so far.
A lion must kill its prey.

DGP123
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
15 Apr 2025, 01:01
Seeing where the car is right now, I feel that Australia and Japan could have offered more. I think George was complacent in Australia about letting the leaders (Max in particular) get away, and of course we know what happened in Japanese GP qualifying, but everything I have seen suggest that the Mercedes works on any kind of track in any temperature and had enough performance to be 2nd best at every track so far.
It’s their best car of this regulation, but it still has not looked like winning any race. That’s where Mercedes are. They will likely win less races this year, than they did last year.

Jdn1327
Jdn1327
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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DGP123 wrote:
15 Apr 2025, 10:07
AR3-GP wrote:
15 Apr 2025, 01:01
Seeing where the car is right now, I feel that Australia and Japan could have offered more. I think George was complacent in Australia about letting the leaders (Max in particular) get away, and of course we know what happened in Japanese GP qualifying, but everything I have seen suggest that the Mercedes works on any kind of track in any temperature and had enough performance to be 2nd best at every track so far.
It’s their best car of this regulation, but it still has not looked like winning any race. That’s where Mercedes are. They will likely win less races this year, than they did last year.
You might be surprised I think...George has been right up there in terms of race pace. So maybe if mclaren have a tangle or two this year...he might pick up a few more wins than last year

Matt2725
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Best to wait to see what the Imola upgrade brings first. Allegedly it's supposed to be a fairly sizable one, to the point it might be their only package as such this year outside of a few iterations during the year.

If it's enough to give them the last bit of performance to bring them to the forefront, I think George will start winning races somewhat regularly.

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ringo
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Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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I think the Mercedes can win the next race in Jeddah comfortably if their Las Vegas performance last year is anything to go by.
Agreed on the team sticking with George.
Max will not bring much in value at this stage.
George has no weaknesses now and is firing on all cylinders. The team is focused around him, he knows the systems and culture and is ingrained in the 2026 project.
Max would be a disruption for Mercedes now as he will need to come up to speed and importantly he will be a fish out of water without Marko and the redbull engineers tha tailored his cars to him.
Russel has nothing to worry about. Totto wants to show the Merc driver program can create champions also. So he's not going to select Max to win in his cars.
For Sure!!

kurtj
kurtj
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Joined: 30 Nov 2024, 15:04

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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ringo wrote:
16 Apr 2025, 08:09
I think the Mercedes can win the next race in Jeddah comfortably if their Las Vegas performance last year is anything to go by.
Agreed on the team sticking with George.
Max will not bring much in value at this stage.
George has no weaknesses now and is firing on all cylinders. The team is focused around him, he knows the systems and culture and is ingrained in the 2026 project.
Max would be a disruption for Mercedes now as he will need to come up to speed and importantly he will be a fish out of water without Marko and the redbull engineers tha tailored his cars to him.
Russel has nothing to worry about. Totto wants to show the Merc driver program can create champions also. So he's not going to select Max to win in his cars.
While Max is definitely a great driver, but he is not going to come alone. He is going to bring an unwanted baggage of toxic fans, Jos who is a loose cannon and that dutch journalist who keeps releasing team info to the world. None of which is a problem currently for Mercedes and they are going about their business quietly.

One advantage with George, other than the fact that he is equally fast, is that he doesn't bark on the team either on radio or in press. He maintains a lot of patience and professionalism with the team, which has been evident in the last 6 years at Williams and Mercedes. He didn't lose his mind in the last race where he had all sorts of technical issues and completed the job. I don't remember which other driver fits in that category other than Schumacher, Mika and Prost.

With Max, it's like Alonso. The cars get more and more difficult to drive for other drivers in the team, making WCC an impossible task. Max's ask for the kind of car is so vastly different to other drivers. Whereas for someone like George, it need not have to be developed oddly differently to get performance out of it. There is a pattern with Max. If the car is to his liking, other can't drive and if the car is likeable for other driver in the team, he doesn't become much of a differentiator. It becomes a big conundrum for engineers. I don't think this going to change if Max moves from Red Bull to Mercedes. In their heydays, Mercedes cars have been generously harmonious to two drivers and W16 follows the same pattern, but I doubt it remains that way if Max joins. Nothing against Max, but you cannot ignore the facts.

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Lasssept
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Joined: 09 Feb 2024, 01:13

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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:-?
Petronas opted for biofuels over synthetic fuel, and rumour has it the deal didn't work out.
https://www.motor.es/formula-1/informe- ... 07728.html

Mark Hughes:
Of the five manufacturers, one looks to be in good shape, there is a dearth of information about another, the bio-fuel choice made by one (with the other four opting for synthetic) is reportedly uncompetitive and the remaining two PUs seem a long way behind. Furthermore, many of the key components and fuels have been homologated, potentially freezing-in a very unhealthy competitive spread.
www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/sin ... tens-erupt

DGP123
DGP123
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Joined: 15 Sep 2022, 17:31

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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So with this issue, the Merc engine not what we’ve all been told? The less power than an F2 car was an interesting read. Just a mess, but no surprise with new regs.

collindsilva
collindsilva
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Joined: 27 Aug 2015, 15:37

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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Lasssept wrote:
16 Apr 2025, 11:14
:-?
Petronas opted for biofuels over synthetic fuel, and rumour has it the deal didn't work out.
https://www.motor.es/formula-1/informe- ... 07728.html

Mark Hughes:
Of the five manufacturers, one looks to be in good shape, there is a dearth of information about another, the bio-fuel choice made by one (with the other four opting for synthetic) is reportedly uncompetitive and the remaining two PUs seem a long way behind. Furthermore, many of the key components and fuels have been homologated, potentially freezing-in a very unhealthy competitive spread.
www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/sin ... tens-erupt
So who is in good shape, can we do a guess work..

DGP123
DGP123
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Joined: 15 Sep 2022, 17:31

Re: 2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

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collindsilva wrote:
16 Apr 2025, 11:31
Lasssept wrote:
16 Apr 2025, 11:14
:-?
Petronas opted for biofuels over synthetic fuel, and rumour has it the deal didn't work out.
https://www.motor.es/formula-1/informe- ... 07728.html

Mark Hughes:
Of the five manufacturers, one looks to be in good shape, there is a dearth of information about another, the bio-fuel choice made by one (with the other four opting for synthetic) is reportedly uncompetitive and the remaining two PUs seem a long way behind. Furthermore, many of the key components and fuels have been homologated, potentially freezing-in a very unhealthy competitive spread.
www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/sin ... tens-erupt
So who is in good shape, can we do a guess work..
Ferrari. Why Lewis jumped?