2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Matt2725]

Petronas opted for biofuels over synthetic fuel, and rumour has it the deal didn't work out.

https://www.motor.es/formula-1/informe- ... 07728.html

Mark Hughes:

Of the five manufacturers, one looks to be in good shape, there is a dearth of information about another, the bio-fuel choice made by one (with the other four opting for synthetic) is reportedly uncompetitive and the remaining two PUs seem a long way behind. Furthermore, many of the key components and fuels have been homologated, potentially freezing-in a very unhealthy competitive spread.

www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/sin ... tens-erupt

You'd think Merc would be pushing for a continuation of the current PU or other concessions if that was the case. Yet they are one of two who are refusing to budge on the new regs.

So what gives?

[toraabe]

I think the Mercedes can win the next race in Jeddah comfortably if their Las Vegas performance last year is anything to go by.
Agreed on the team sticking with George.
Max will not bring much in value at this stage.
George has no weaknesses now and is firing on all cylinders. The team is focused around him, he knows the systems and culture and is ingrained in the 2026 project.
Max would be a disruption for Mercedes now as he will need to come up to speed and importantly he will be a fish out of water without Marko and the redbull engineers tha tailored his cars to him.
Russel has nothing to worry about. Totto wants to show the Merc driver program can create champions also. So he's not going to select Max to win in his cars.

While Max is definitely a great driver, but he is not going to come alone. He is going to bring an unwanted baggage of toxic fans, Jos who is a loose cannon and that dutch journalist who keeps releasing team info to the world. None of which is a problem currently for Mercedes and they are going about their business quietly.

One advantage with George, other than the fact that he is equally fast, is that he doesn't bark on the team either on radio or in press. He maintains a lot of patience and professionalism with the team, which has been evident in the last 6 years at Williams and Mercedes. He didn't lose his mind in the last race where he had all sorts of technical issues and completed the job. I don't remember which other driver fits in that category other than Schumacher, Mika and Prost.

With Max, it's like Alonso. The cars get more and more difficult to drive for other drivers in the team, making WCC an impossible task. Max's ask for the kind of car is so vastly different to other drivers. Whereas for someone like George, it need not have to be developed oddly differently to get performance out of it. There is a pattern with Max. If the car is to his liking, other can't drive and if the car is likeable for other driver in the team, he doesn't become much of a differentiator. It becomes a big conundrum for engineers. I don't think this going to change if Max moves from Red Bull to Mercedes. In their heydays, Mercedes cars have been generously harmonious to two drivers and W16 follows the same pattern, but I doubt it remains that way if Max joins. Nothing against Max, but you cannot ignore the facts.

Exactly. I am sure that Mercedes has one of the best pairing in the field. It seems that Russel and Antonelli has more or less the liking on how the car should behave. They should not take Verstappen. Antonelli is their man for the future together with Russel.....

[organic]

Kravitz, who is a relentless pot-stirrer but does have significant connections within the paddock especially @ merc

"I don't think [Russell's form] will have a bearing," Kravitz explained in Sky Sports' The F1 Show. "George could be leading the world championship, but Toto will, in all likelihood, if he gets the opportunity, sign Verstappen up for the future.
"I don't think, such is the unrelentingly cutthroat nature of Formula 1, I don't think he would think twice about replacing George Russell."

[AR3-GP]

The feeling that I get with this team is that engineering (Shovlin, Allison) are happy with Kimi and George. George especially because they are fellow Brits and you can see it in the debriefs. It’s been a long time since I saw a smile from Andrew Shovlin. I think he’s very happy to be on this journey with George Russell and happy to be free of the drama and weight of expectation of the previous driver… It’s Toto and Mercedes who have the obsession with Max Verstappen because they are more financially motivated. So there will be a rift in the team between the engineering and the owners if Toto and Mercedes use their ownership to remove George Russell.

GR and AKA don’t ask for much. They simply drive what they are given. They are low pressure for engineering. Hamilton and Verstappen are the engineers worst nightmare. WDCs who demand a fast car and a cause a media circus. There are pros and cons to every situation.

AKA is the star in the making at this team anyway. Toto just has to be patient.

[SB15]

The feeling that I get with this team is that engineering (Shovlin, Allison) are happy with Kimi and George. George especially because they are fellow Brits and you can see it in the debriefs. It’s been a long time since I saw a smile from Andrew Shovlin. I think he’s very happy to be on this journey with George Russell and happy to be free of the drama and weight of expectation of the previous driver… It’s Toto and Mercedes who have the obsession with Max Verstappen because they are more financially motivated. So there will be a rift in the team between the engineering and the owners if Toto and Mercedes use their ownership to remove George Russell.

GR and AKA don’t ask for much. They simply drive what they are given. They are low pressure for engineering. Hamilton and Verstappen are the engineers worst nightmare. WDCs who demand a fast car and a cause a media circus. There are pros and cons to every situation.

AKA is the star in the making at this team anyway. Toto just has to be patient.

I believe Toto is very patient at the moment and see no reason to sign Verstappen even if the oppurtunity presented because I have zero idea how people are forgetting that Toto is also seeing the amount of baggage Max brings with him if he's signed and I believe Mercedes higher ups wouldn't want that even if you are the best driver on the grid. Max would likely stay for 2026 with Redbull anyway, so these "rumors" of him leaving are only because people love to spread drama for no reason.

[OverheatedTurbo]

Will Merc also add the innovative drum brake design from Mclaren? I heard news that Red Bull will implement that in their Imola package.

[SB15]

Will Merc also add the innovative drum brake design from Mclaren? I heard news that Red Bull will implement that in their Imola package.

Extremely likely they will and also focus their upgrades on both suspensions and other mechanical parts because that's where most of the gains are made. Only aero tweak I can see being made is the floor edge.

[ringo]

Toto doesnt really want Max. He's just saying he does to get under Horner's skin.
They have invested heavily in Russel's career and George hasnt failed them or under delivered. He is delivering as expected. There is no reason to cut that relationship. I dont think Toto has that ruthless nature. He is quite personable.

[TimW]

Kravitz, who is a relentless pot-stirrer but does have significant connections within the paddock especially @ merc

"I don't think [Russell's form] will have a bearing," Kravitz explained in Sky Sports' The F1 Show. "George could be leading the world championship, but Toto will, in all likelihood, if he gets the opportunity, sign Verstappen up for the future.
"I don't think, such is the unrelentingly cutthroat nature of Formula 1, I don't think he would think twice about replacing George Russell."

Toto doesnt really want Max. He's just saying he does to get under Horner's skin.
They have invested heavily in Russel's career and George hasnt failed them or under delivered. He is delivering as expected. There is no reason to cut that relationship. I dont think Toto has that ruthless nature. He is quite personable.

Just check how the popularity of the Mercedes team thread dropped since Lewis left, and you know why Toto wants to sign Max (apart from his driving skills). F1 is about advertising and exposure, not sports.

Only if Russell wins the WDC this will change. A world champion attracts media exposure. But even then I think he is like Rosberg, not loved or hated enough.

(edit: but for the same reason RBR cannot let Max go.....)

[basti313]

Kravitz, who is a relentless pot-stirrer but does have significant connections within the paddock especially @ merc

"I don't think [Russell's form] will have a bearing," Kravitz explained in Sky Sports' The F1 Show. "George could be leading the world championship, but Toto will, in all likelihood, if he gets the opportunity, sign Verstappen up for the future.
"I don't think, such is the unrelentingly cutthroat nature of Formula 1, I don't think he would think twice about replacing George Russell."

Toto doesnt really want Max. He's just saying he does to get under Horner's skin.
They have invested heavily in Russel's career and George hasnt failed them or under delivered. He is delivering as expected. There is no reason to cut that relationship. I dont think Toto has that ruthless nature. He is quite personable.

Just check how the popularity of the Mercedes team thread dropped since Lewis left, and you know why Toto wants to sign Max (apart from his driving skills). F1 is about advertising and exposure, not sports.

Only if Russell wins the WDC this will change. A world champion attracts media exposure. But even then I think he is like Rosberg, not loved or hated enough.

(edit: but for the same reason RBR cannot let Max go.....)

Russel will attract media as Hill did when he won the WDC...

No, I think this is not working. There is one chance this year for McLaren and one for Mercedes/Ferrari next year. Afterwards others will be in the mix again. Once this is the case, they need a superstar for marketing and Verstappen for success. Just a WDC that may fall George on his feet in 2026 is not a future.
Nevertheless...if they do not sign Verstappen for next year, a potential Russel WDC will make it impossible to sign him for 2027.

[kurtj]

Kravitz, who is a relentless pot-stirrer but does have significant connections within the paddock especially @ merc

Toto doesnt really want Max. He's just saying he does to get under Horner's skin.
They have invested heavily in Russel's career and George hasnt failed them or under delivered. He is delivering as expected. There is no reason to cut that relationship. I dont think Toto has that ruthless nature. He is quite personable.

Just check how the popularity of the Mercedes team thread dropped since Lewis left, and you know why Toto wants to sign Max (apart from his driving skills). F1 is about advertising and exposure, not sports.

Only if Russell wins the WDC this will change. A world champion attracts media exposure. But even then I think he is like Rosberg, not loved or hated enough.

(edit: but for the same reason RBR cannot let Max go.....)

Russel will attract media as Hill did when he won the WDC...

No, I think this is not working. There is one chance this year for McLaren and one for Mercedes/Ferrari next year. Afterwards others will be in the mix again. Once this is the case, they need a superstar for marketing and Verstappen for success. Just a WDC that may fall George on his feet in 2026 is not a future.
Nevertheless...if they do not sign Verstappen for next year, a potential Russel WDC will make it impossible to sign him for 2027.

Sorry that argument holds no water. Why do they even need Max for 2027 if Russel becomes a WDC in 2026? It means he would have proved that he can win WDCs. Max cannot win a title for Mercedes, if Ferrari or McLaren produce cars with 2 or 3 tenths over Mercedes in 2027. When Red Bull couldn't sign the best driver on the grid in 2008, a young Seb came and did the job for them for 5 years. What did Red Bull miss? I don't like this idea of bringing a successful driver and making him even more successful, at the cost of not trusting other capable drivers, especially home grown ones that can do the same job, like Seb proved.

They have the driver they need at the moment, a potential WDC and would be much better marketing product in UK and other places than Max ever could be, except Netherland. That one tenth or so that he "may supposedly" have over other drivers, is that worth for Mercedes as it comes with an unwanted toxic baggage? I don't think so.

I understand Max's fans want him a better home than the current Red Bull as Mercedes is "rumored" to be having better engine, so suddenly, a case should be made to get him to the team that might have the best "engine+car" package. Beyond that, these arguments make little sense. Could the same folks have made this argument at the end of 2023?

[ali623]

Toto doesnt really want Max. He's just saying he does to get under Horner's skin.
They have invested heavily in Russel's career and George hasnt failed them or under delivered. He is delivering as expected. There is no reason to cut that relationship. I dont think Toto has that ruthless nature. He is quite personable.

I’m pretty certain Toto absolutely does want Max, he’s the best driver on the grid right now and probably by a reasonable margin. Toto has always regretted missing out on Max when Red Bull gave him a better offer back in 2014/15.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with Russell, who’s a perfectly great driver. But as Max showed last season, as long as the car is thereabouts, he’ll win you a championship.

[Quantum]

There's 3 choices a team can make.

1.Buy into an established star with guaranteed stratospherically high expectations before a wheel has turned that evolves into pressured attrition.
See Aston as a prime example, and who knows maybe Ferrari...time will tell.


2.Give young talent a shot and create their own star. Red Bull with Max a prime example, but that took time as Max didn't become a global superstar in 4 races. The route Mercedes have opted and may transpire similarly to the trajectory of the example cited...time will tell. But it does need time.

3.Stick with what you've got.

The quite fantastical assumption that a 4 race young blood talent will suddenly fill the press attention vacuum of a 7 timer legend is hilarious.
As is the expectation that Russell will suddenly garner the headlines because Lewis has left. Yea that wont be happening until he get's winning regularly.
What is needed is perspective, time and patience. Not 200 pages of gumph.

[Matt2725]

There's a huge assumption that putting Max in the car will suddenly make it 3 tenths faster over Russell

That just isn't true. We know how Max likes his cars and it's extremely likely he'd be slower than Russell in the same Mercedes if we put them together this weekend.
Does Merc really want to become another Formula Verstappen where the team is all about him, second driver be damned? I'm not sure they do being honest.

A lot of this discourse is a certain fan base panicking their driver will end his charge at 4 F1 driver's championships. Because he'll never be spoken about next to Schumacher and Hamilton at 7 in years to come if he stays at 4.

I'm 99.9% certain Russell will be extended at Mercedes on a multi-year deal.

[ringo]

Max is no better or worse than the other drivers at turning a slow car to a winner.
Even his own Rb21 when it has a slightly off day, the great Max struggles and locks up and gets flustered. This concept of driving a donkey of a car to P1 is patently false.
Drivers will win one offs with poor cars. Gasly, Perez, Etc. But even Max isnt going to make a good car like a W16 fly around a track like the McL39.
I agree that mercedes has nothing to gain but toxicity from Max's joining. Great driver, but when you have the future in George and Kimi, it's hard to justify bringing him if he's not even working magic in his slightly slower but problematic car. Also what happens when he comes to Merc and has those crazy exist clauses and #2 driver clauses like he did at Redbull? He would leave the minute things look a little difficult.
I think George has a strong footing in the team. He is not like the disposable Sainz who was the bridesmaid to the prodigy and chosen one born in a manger at thw Scuderia Leclerc.