2014 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring

[CHT]

I think we need to give Pirelli some credit for the exciting race at Hungary.

[SectorOne]

That and the rain, the accidents and the safety car.

[CHT]

That and the rain, the accidents and the safety car.

SC is definitely an important factor because of Merc dominance this year.

[MercedesAMGSpy]

The SC was the biggest factor, when I saw Rosberg and the other front runners doing another lap I knew enough.

[Just_a_fan]

I know most of you are based in the UK, so naturally Hamilton is a big talking point, but I can't believe that Alonso's laps in damp conditions have received so little credit. In any case, epic drive from him and driver of the day for me.

I think it's because there are a number of quite vocal Hamilton anti-fans who say things that make Hamilton fans react. If someone came on here and said that Alonso's drive was poor then we'd see much more mention of his drive as people defended him.

The simple answer is - don't feed the trolls/haters. That way the forum would be more balanced / factual just as it used to be.

[iotar__]

He was denied the right of the first stop because of the SC. It would be ridiculous to not pit Hamilton.

I meant and wrote "Austria".

In Austria there wasn't a problem at all. They pitted Hamilton first to jump Bottas and Nico won the race.

Situations are very comparable if you realise=agree that 1. Rosberg had the right to pit as a leading driver and denying him that cost him points advantage he earned - Ham's third vs second (Austria) 2. It's up to a driver not a team to decide strategies. Clearly they chose strategy (Hungary) where there was an option of letting pass the other driver on different tyres. Not uncommon in F1 - see Ricciardo, Vettel. They couldn't execute his strategy because of other driver's choice, therefore it's up to a driver to affect other's strategies because they're fighting for WDC (Wolff's words and decisions not mine) - which goes back to Austria.

In Austria it would have been a much clearer situation - Rosberg was the one leading before stops, unlike Hamilton in Hungary. His was the first call. You can't disagree because that is reality in the second instance and basic right in the first, preferences don't count here. BTW Lauda's saying that they panicked is simply not true: one possibility of a strategy of two stops against one is that at one point driver on two stops will be faster and behind the other. This let him pass is included in planned strategy as a possibility - nothing random or unexpected about it. They can't say we'll see about it later, why would they when it's better to have it planned? Was it included? Yes, clearly - because they told him to let him pass.

[iotar__]

I think it's because there are a number of quite vocal Hamilton anti-fans who say things that make Hamilton fans react. If someone came on here and said that Alonso's drive was poor then we'd see much more mention of his drive as people defended him.
The simple answer is - don't feed the trolls/haters. That way the forum would be more balanced / factual just as it used to be.

I think the even simpler answer is the problem is posts with random name calling, no facts, no arguments based on physical world and no substance. I'd add wide spread hypocrisy (look an example - this is how it should be done): like claiming how changing line in a braking zone is immediately punishable by a penalty and ignoring it when favourite driver chops and fouls that way.

[GrizzleBoy]

don't feed the trolls/haters.

Yep. Just had to use the ignore button for the first time ever on this forum. The constant provocation some forumites post is just a little too much for me.

[turbof1]

Iotar, the moment the safety car came out Rosberg already passed the pit entrance. If they had to wait for Rosberg to pit first, Hamilton would have lost out massively. Hamilton was in the position to pit, rosberg wasn't.

You simply cannot compare such situations with normal race developments. Hamilton was completely out of position and a safety car was deployed. At such a moment the team will optimise to the situation. Would it have helped Rosberg at that moment if Hamilton pitted later? No, because Hamilton still was 9th and behind Rosberg. At that moment Rosberg wasn't disadvantaged by any sort of possible undercut Hamilton would have enjoyed.

And just_a_fan is right: there's too much talk about Hamilton; I barely see any credit to Alonso or Ricciardo. Since when is the race winner put on the background, just because of an other driver having a bit of controversy? It's getting insane, and if this continues I'll simply lock the topic. Too much blabla Hamilton blabla.

[Steven]

Everybody in F1 seems to be ill in the same bed. I have seen a BBC journalist putting up headlights from the Hungarian GP, including shots of Hamilton and Alonso, yet denying Ricciardo the spotlight he rightly deserved.

Personally, for F1, I think it would have been even greater if Alonso could round off that wonderful race of his. After the SC, he took his chances right away and got clear of a pack of drivers which Rosberg was unable to break away from. Instead, he got passed by Vergne and was stuck behind him for a long while. All discussion about equality at Mercedes are pointless if you consider what a lousy drive Rosberg put in at this time of the race. If he managed to follow Alonso, or simply just keep Vergne behind (probably not that difficult with a much better engine), he would have easily been ahead of HAM at the end of the race.

I also wish to point out that Mercedes are not just a team to ensure driver equality. They try to get both cars in the best possible positions at the finish. Assuming that this would always include having both of them on the same strategy and the same sequence of pitstops is just ignorant. Seeing 3 F1 races should make it clear enough that split strategies is a common tactic in F1 teams to make sure they make the best of an opportunity for the team, and sometimes indeed that turns out better for one car than for another.

[AlexJ]

Think it was Brundle in the commentary, called Riccardo a star of the future? He's a star right now and you'd have to be blind not to see it.

Re the pitstops, fully agree with turbo. Team's job is to get both the cars as far up the road as possible. You give each driver every advantage possible short of deliberately compromising the other.

And iotar, I'm not sure exactly how Hamilton's engine catching fire translates into "Rosberg earned a points advantage and Hamilton must be kept behind when Rosberg is compromised by safety car timing"?

[Andres125sx]

Safety Car was deployed just as Vettel and Alonso (P3 and P4) were passing the pit lane entrance. Rosberg was at the start of the pit straight in the lead and so the safety car came out just ahead of him and picked him up straight away. Everyone behind except Magnussen pitted immediately, so they all got a to do a lap to the delta time whereas Rosberg, Bottas, Vettel and Alonso were stuck behind the safety car for the entire lap. They all pitted and fed back out into the pack, Rosberg came out in 4th.

That´s what makes Alonso´s race even more impressive. Rosberg, Bottas, Vettel and Alonso were "punished" by first SC and they all lost 3 positions. Alonso was 7th after that, but he managed to overcome that problem overtaking on track. Rosberg, Bottas and Vettel couldn´t.

He almost win the race with that Ferrari even when first SC was harmful for him, same as for those Williams, Red Bull and Mercedes, but he beat them fair and square

Impressive =D>

Obviously Ricciardo race was great too, but contrary to Alonso, first SC put him leader of the race with no effort, he just was lucky about being first driver to enter pit-lane when it was deployed

Anycase, Ricciardo is proving to be very good overtaking and holding possition. Last race he was so aggresive with Alonso I thought he could keep position. This race he passed Hamilton at the outside.

Impressive too =D> but due to first SC influence, to me Alonso was the driver of the day hands down

[dans79]

And just_a_fan is right: there's too much talk about Hamilton; I barely see any credit to Alonso or Ricciardo. Since when is the race winner put on the background, just because of an other driver having a bit of controversy? It's getting insane, and if this continues I'll simply lock the topic. Too much blabla Hamilton blabla.

perhaps Hamilton just has more fans, and that's why he is talked about more.

[Gaara]

If Mercedes thought ROS would win by pitting at the end, why they didn't pit Lewis too who was in front of him?

[iotar__]

Think it was Brundle in the commentary, called Riccardo a star of the future? He's a star right now and you'd have to be blind not to see it.

Re the pitstops, fully agree with turbo. Team's job is to get both the cars as far up the road as possible. You give each driver every advantage possible short of deliberately compromising the other.

And iotar, I'm not sure exactly how Hamilton's engine catching fire translates into "Rosberg earned a points advantage and Hamilton must be kept behind when Rosberg is compromised by safety car timing"?

1.Just winning 2 races doesn't make you a star. He had again bad start (mostly bad starts this season), this time couple of positions lost, benefited from safety car and his main opposition was Alonso in a slower car and without benefits of SC timing, on a different strategy and very old tyres, overtaking him was formality. Mercedes' strategy according to Wolff helped him in a major way as was Hamilton's behaviour. Overtake on Hamilton after his mistake was good.
2. I think I put it as clearly as possible comparing losing advantage of one place thanks to sub-optimal strategy in Austria and Hungary situation, separating pitstops from overall strategy doesn't make sense here. So again: if it's up to Hamilton to decide strategy for Rosberg it should have been up to Rosberg to choose if he wants to pit first (his right) and thus deny his opposition to jump one place over Bottas and gain WDC points, since according to Toto Wolff that is driver's right when Hamilton was preventing team's strategy and Rosberg jumping Alonso. Simple rule: who decides strategy and based on what criteria: team's or his own benefit. Rosberg finishing in front of Alonso would benefit the team as was Hamilton's in front of Bottas. No point repeating in fourth time.
3. I don't know where you got that quote from and what situation and whose opinion it's describing.