2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Hamilton vs Vettel incident

[dans79]

It's being reported, that the FIA will definitely be re-investigating the incident.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/130449

A FIA statement said: "Following the recent incident at the Azerbaijan Grand Prix in which car #5 (Sebastian Vettel) was involved in a collision with car #44 (Lewis Hamilton), on Monday July 3 the FIA will further examine the causes of the incident in order to evaluate whether further action is necessary.

"A statement regarding the outcome of this process will be made available before the upcoming Austrian Grand Prix."

[Vanja #66]

Telemetry Data for those that still needed more convincing.
http://www.zupimages.net/up/17/26/1han.jpg

Thanks. I'd have to disagree with the comment on the first graph, that's not steady deceleration since there is a period of 0.4s with the same velocity, followed by a period of a steady deceleration. And these 0.4s are enough for a driver to think "that the guy in front is about to catapult his a$$ and throw dirt in my face". Like Rosberg said, Hamilton is very skilled in these situations, he knows how to drive on the edge and not cross it. 0.4s may look insignificant, but these guys fight for 0.001s lap by lap, race by race and for them and their reflexes, it's a lot...

Also, have to say, FIA announcement on Monday is a disgrace, saying that in all 3 SC restarts Hamilton behaved the same. Like we can see in the video by F1 on YouTube, first time he kept almost steady speed around T15 (10-12s on those graphs) with total difference of 10-11kmh. Second time difference was 30kmh, and third time he kept it on 70kmh flat.

[iotar__]

Telemetry Data for those that still needed more convincing.
http://www.zupimages.net/up/17/26/1han.jpg

Thanks. I'd have to disagree with the comment on the first graph, that's not steady deceleration since there is a period of 0.4s with the same velocity, followed by a period of a steady deceleration.

- Steady as hell, especially Vettel before hitting Hamilton. "Steady" measured in what, impression or working backwards from no penalty decision?
- Watch the replay and check where it happened, where the other car was and how "steady" it was. That's for people that need convincing of course . Watch this steady collision too, with that kind of steady decelerations there would be 10 collisions per SC. Enough.

So they're investigating, AKA artificially spicing up the show:
- FIA as usual has no shame. Over the last five-six seasons they ignored literally fifty more dangerous incidents. Ignored meaning no action. More dangerous meaning ten times more dangerous and/or with material world consequences, like crashes and heavy crashes.

- Enough, you gave a penalty here, the end. I can't even imagine giving something more.

- What this pompous bunch doesn't like is calling them on their BS. So I expect now from Vettel: Hamilton didn't brake test me (a lie), I deserve a penalty, I'm so sorry, FIA is fair, I love safety etc. All this childish fake stuff.

[ClarkBT11]

It would be pathetic if due to the presusre coming from (essentialy) the UK Todt decides to punish Vettel with one race ban. If he is banned for one race, should not be the first penaly be invalidated?. I don´t see fair to receive a double penaly for the same move.

Vettlel should'nt receive a race ban,

You can't polish a turd but you can roll it around in glitter.

exactly why vettel should recieve a race ban

What Ferrari should get and what Ferrari will get are two different things. Should of been put to bed days ago, the world's either too politically correct or corrupt. And the stewards need to grow a pair, at least this will be another rule Vettel will of made when it's over for hitting another drivers car on purpose: race ban, 6 points to license plus hefty fine and Todt's safety gopher for a year.

[TAG]

Thanks. I'd have to disagree with the comment on the first graph, that's not steady deceleration since there is a period of 0.4s with the same velocity, followed by a period of a steady deceleration. And these 0.4s are enough for a driver to think "that the guy in front is about to catapult his a$$ and throw dirt in my face". Like Rosberg said, Hamilton is very skilled in these situations, he knows how to drive on the edge and not cross it. 0.4s may look insignificant, but these guys fight for 0.001s lap by lap, race by race and for them and their reflexes, it's a lot...

Disagree all you want, that's your prerogative, your opinion but the FiA saw it differetnly, the race stewards saw it differently and it CLEARLY isn't a brake check which is what Vettel said, it's a case of him being pissed off at the fact that like you said... Hamilton is very skilled in these situations.

Sebastian Vettel clash with Lewis Hamilton to face further FIA probe

...anyway, the news keeps getting grimmer for our short fused F1 driver extraordinaire.

[ClarkBT11]

Telemetry Data for those that still needed more convincing.
http://www.zupimages.net/up/17/26/1han.jpg

Thanks. I'd have to disagree with the comment on the first graph, that's not steady deceleration since there is a period of 0.4s with the same velocity, followed by a period of a steady deceleration. And these 0.4s are enough for a driver to think "that the guy in front is about to catapult his a$$ and throw dirt in my face". Like Rosberg said, Hamilton is very skilled in these situations, he knows how to drive on the edge and not cross it. 0.4s may look insignificant, but these guys fight for 0.001s lap by lap, race by race and for them and their reflexes, it's a lot...

Also, have to say, FIA announcement on Monday is a disgrace, saying that in all 3 SC restarts Hamilton behaved the same. Like we can see in the video by F1 on YouTube, first time he kept almost steady speed around T15 (10-12s on those graphs) with total difference of 10-11kmh. Second time difference was 30kmh, and third time he kept it on 70kmh flat.

Like you said he's not crossed the line, Vettel made a mistake. It's a disgrace Vettel didn't get black flagged.

[iotar__]

This is the only part that matters, the rest is pointless noise.


- Time is important (SC off)
- Place is more important mid-exit corner, where you don't "not really steadily" decelerate or if you do the other car ends up in your back or lifts/brakes
- Show us (data, telemetry) if anyone took this corner like Hamilton with a car close behind like that. They won't because there would be more investigations
- enough about this.

[Phil]

Thanks. I'd have to disagree with the comment on the first graph, that's not steady deceleration since there is a period of 0.4s with the same velocity, followed by a period of a steady deceleration. And these 0.4s are enough for a driver to think "that the guy in front is about to catapult his a$$ and throw dirt in my face".

Seriously?! There is ZERO evidence in the graph to suggest this 0.4s had any impact or influencd at all at what Vettel did. Vettel was still closing the gap before and after those 0.4 of constant velocity. We are over analyzing here.

And for the record, the point is moot. Vettel could have been glued to Hamiltons rear bumper, it still does not change the fact that Hamilton was lead car and defacto pacing at his own discretion. Bunching up the field is a natural progression under such circuimstances and within Hamiltons right to do so (as long as it isnt deemed to be erratic, which it clearly wasnt).

[AnotherAlex]

People keep banging on about Hamilton not touching his brakes but a brake test is about the person behind having to brake, not the guy in front. Hybrid F1 cars experience significant retardation when lifting off the throttle so the fact that Hamilton didn’t use the brake pedal just shows he was being smart about it.
He did basically the same thing at the previous restart, lift off, hope the guy behind has to brake and take avoiding action, then floor it when they do. That meets with my understanding of a brake test (though it's by no means as dangerous as one performed under racing conditions).
It was telling that we saw a very different restart from Hamilton after the red flag, where he failed to pull out a gap before the line and was under pressure for the first few corners.

[Tom145145]

People keep banging on about Hamilton not touching his brakes but a brake test is about the person behind having to brake, not the guy in front. Hybrid F1 cars experience significant retardation when lifting off the throttle so the fact that Hamilton didn’t use the brake pedal just shows he was being smart about it.
He did basically the same thing at the previous restart, lift off, hope the guy behind has to brake and take avoiding action, then floor it when they do. That meets with my understanding of a brake test (though it's by no means as dangerous as one performed under racing conditions).
It was telling that we saw a very different restart from Hamilton after the red flag, where he failed to pull out a gap before the line and was under pressure for the first few corners.

If a brake test is just testing wether the car behind has brakes, yes then it was a brake test.

[Manoah2u]

It was a 'break' test, in seeing if the person behind would 'break' - not physicall, but mentally.
and yes, that definately did happen

He broke Vettel right there - didn't take much though

[bonjon1979]

I really am at a loss to understand how people can attack the FIA for wanting to look into this more. Vettel was on a final warning for his disrespect towards stewards after mexico. He deliberately crashes is car into another under the safety car having just caused a collision. The penalty he gets for that is reasonably lenient considering the severity of what he's done. Then he complains about the stewards decision over the radio. After the race when he has the information available to him he continues to lie about the brake test and insists the stewards are wrong again to punish him without punishing Hamilton. He was warned after Mexico that it would be his last chance, how can he expect not to draw more fire for this? How can anyone defend him?

[NathanOlder]

because Lewis then has more races completed, he'd be the leader in he championship.

I thought Seb would be leading due to more 2nd places. Ive not heard of being ahead because he has completed more races ??

[BanMeToo]

I really am at a loss to understand how people can attack the FIA for wanting to look into this more...

I think it simply makes the whole thing more farcical, that the FIA is taking two stabs at it. It's not really defending Vettel. Stewards should have just shown him a black flag while the race was stopped and been done with it.

[NathanOlder]

It was a 'break' test, in seeing if the person behind would 'break' - not physicall, but mentally.
and yes, that definately did happen

He broke Vettel right there - didn't take much though

=D>