2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
bill shoe
bill shoe
151
Joined: 19 Nov 2008, 08:18
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Capharol wrote:
26 Mar 2019, 12:30
They start a complete new team it seems
Yea, but they're missing postings for:
  • TEAM PRINCIPAL
  • TECHNICAL DIRECTOR
  • TWO REASONABLY FAST RACE CARS

Capharol
Capharol
21
Joined: 04 Nov 2018, 17:06

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

and if I had the knowledge i would have applied, but i am just a simple F1 fan who follows the sport for a long time

Sulman
Sulman
4
Joined: 08 Apr 2008, 10:28

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Manoah2u wrote:
23 Mar 2019, 14:19
If they haven't figured out last year's problem(s), it can be anybody's guess.

Ralf Schumacher made a damning statement about Williams.

http://www.grandprix.com/news/williams- ... acher.html

Williams being run with fear and terror says Ralf Schumacher

Ralf Schumacher, who won all six of his F1 victories with the British team, thinks the problem at Williams could be its management.

He told Germany's motorsport-total.com that the struggling Oxfordshire based outfit currently is being is run with "fear and terror". Schumacher, 43, said it was the same as when Sir Frank Williams ran the team alone in the 70s.

"Williams has a very special leadership style. As long as Patrick Head was there it was balanced," he said.

"It's a style of leadership from the 70s and 80s, a bit of a reign of fear and terror. It's a shame, because I think people need to be motivated."

Head, though, has long retired, and the team is now run by Sir Frank's daughter Claire.

"With the current structure, Williams cannot get the best out of its employees, because there is no team cohesion," Schumacher said. "The engineers are working against each other more than with each other.

"Unfortunately, Claire has kept her father's habits, and she should certainly wonder if that is the right job for her. Perhaps Williams' team management needs to be restructured," he added.

"A man (Paddy Lowe) who has just been fired was very successful at other teams, and even he failed to put Williams back on track. That's enough to start asking questions," said Ralf.
on gpupdate.net
Ralf Schumacher lashes out: "Williams is not open to criticism at all"

If it is up to the brother of record F1 champion Michael Schumacher, former Formula 1 driver and himself six-time Grand Prix winner Ralf Schumacher, then the Williams team would change course as quickly as possible. The German, now 43 years old, drove for the Williams stable in the past and noticed the crew struggling.

According to Schumi II , Williams' demise has to do with the way they work. Schumacher believes team boss Claire Williams would do better to pursue a different approach.

"Williams' leadership style dates back to the 1970s, 1980s. For them, it is purely about power. Fear reigns. and that's unbelievably unfortunate. They don't seem to notice that people perform better if they are motivated, so they get the chance to develop ", Schumacher says in the podcast of Formel1.de .

"At Williams, employees have to work hard day-in, day-out. They don't get the time to have fun, and it's out of the question to question the leadership of the bosses. At some point, you just end up on a dead track."

Schumacher cites the recently departed Paddy Lowe as an example. "Paddy was incredibly successful in another system," he refers to his time as Mercedes technical director. Schumacher does not know whether Claire Williams should pack her bags. "She has to decide for herself. Maybe a new approach needs to be introduced within the team."
Ralf Schumacher slamming in some wisdom on the table and bringing in a good point regarding Lowe.

I have zero doubt that that's the truth. All the inside news from Williams, morale on rock bottom, HRM a joke, targets being missed, thinking they can fix things with 2 changes, and then starting a blame culture and blaming everything with a lowblow to Paddy Lowe, goes hand in hand exactly with what Schumacher is saying here. Williams (leadership) is one of arrogance. They think they're better and know better. I remember well what happened with Hill back when he won the championship with them, and also with Villeneuve.
People in the past mentioned Ferrari is ruthless in that regard - remember Prost being fired for calling the car a 'tractor'. But to be honest, i think Williams might be far, far worse. Atleast Ferrari has their heritage and being Ferrari to 'boast'. What does Williams have but failure in the past decades?

BTW on totally another point though, i see the Rokit site finally is up and running.
Matter of fact, i think i might order a phone from them and see what's up.
Looks like pretty decent deal, and i'm curious on how it compares to the usual giants in the industry.
Although Ralf's a pretty excellent primary source, I don't really buy that about Claire Williams. If you listen to this podcast interview, she just doesn't come across that way at all. As for Frank & Patrick, I thought it was Patrick you didn't want to upset. Who knows?



I got the impression that, if anything, she's a bit of a nice kid. The remark she makes about being brought up to be seen and not heard, and reflecting this feeling as a team manager is very unusual in what is an extremely hard environment.

Frank Williams has been known for a robust management style, but it's obviously worked very well for Williams at some point, but he is possibly out of touch and if they really wanted to work it out him and Claire should adopt a symbolic role and get someone in that understands how to run the team properly again.

Capharol
Capharol
21
Joined: 04 Nov 2018, 17:06

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

in the Williams Documentary she doesn't seems like a bossy type, more of the opposite, i believe she even said there that she doesn't wanna be like her father
Frank was the bossy type, Patrick Head was more the friendly neighbor from next door, that's why Patrick had so many problems with Piquet and Mansell as Frank was in the hospital due to the accident

dtro
dtro
3
Joined: 06 Feb 2019, 19:39

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

I don't think the problem is Claire, probably wasn't Paddy either. I think, in true Douglas Adams fashion, that the "fundamental problem" with the Williams cars of the last couple of years is that the car, itself, fundamentally does not want to be a car. It goes out on track and begins to contemplate it's existence. It's actually quite happy now, having come to the realization that it will spend a year as a moving chicane, before gathering dust equivalent to the laurels it rests. Fundamentally, it's a donkey on an F1 track. Kudos to Kubica and Russell/Stroll and Sirotkin for convincing us otherwise.

User avatar
Vasconia
6
Joined: 30 Aug 2012, 10:45
Location: Basque Country

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Manoah2u wrote:
18 Mar 2019, 19:42
He did all sessions, including qualifying, was able to control a car that had a tire puncture during qually after hitting the wall without losing control completely, he finished an entire race distance with a totally wrecked and exhausted car. with a competitive car, kubica will be more than fine.
This is a relief for me as I found painful to see such a slow Kubica during the race. I do hope he Will enjoy a more positive weekend in Bahrein.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Williams woes are far from over, and there's fat chance the car will be able to get even remotely close to the backmarkers that are in front of them, let alone pass them.
That is not by any means Kubica's fault, but the team/car's fault. You might even say Williams let Kubica down big time.
Kubica will be able to manage, but he needs a better car. That goes for Russell aswell, offcourse.
It'll be next year at best.
Unless the team folds.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

elMaestro
elMaestro
0
Joined: 30 Aug 2013, 02:28

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Having seen Williams stop the development of the car last year so early i was really hopeful that they would come bouncing back this year. Seeing them having fundamental issues with the car like they did last year it seems they dont know how to design and build a car aswell. A shame really. The issue seems really that design departments dont really communicate or work with each other one bit.

Greg_OR
Greg_OR
0
Joined: 26 Jun 2010, 03:09
Location: Wroclaw, Poland

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Last year they stopped developing so early because they had no clue what gone wrong with design process, they solved it somewhere in the middle of the season, as even in Austria Kubica did Friday practice with strange setups only for aero related checks to bring back their tunnel/cfd correlation. But even then somebody (dont remember if it was RK or Claire) said that solving one problem raises couple of others.
I also expected that they will bring completely different project but it seems that FW42 is only somehow improved FW41.
Another bad thing is that (as Robert said) they used last year FW41 setup data as a baseline for this year car and failed because FW42 reacts in different way at the end. So I also have doubts that their simulator is up to date and usefull.

bill shoe
bill shoe
151
Joined: 19 Nov 2008, 08:18
Location: Dallas, Texas, USA

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

I'm a frustrated fan for sure, but I'm not understanding the long-term situation.

Williams are a 40+ year-old team with a long-term record of success. As recently as 4 years ago (90% of the team's current age) they were making legitimately competitive cars.

Has the Williams approach suddenly stopped working over the last 4 years? Or has every other team just blown it up to a higher level?

I remember that almost all other teams back then had crippling problems with funding, politics, and general drama. Williams at least avoided those problems. Are all the other teams simply much better now that they've solved their previous self-inflicted wounds?

wunderkind
wunderkind
5
Joined: 04 Apr 2007, 06:12

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

bill shoe wrote:
28 Mar 2019, 02:11
I'm a frustrated fan for sure, but I'm not understanding the long-term situation.

Williams are a 40+ year-old team with a long-term record of success. As recently as 4 years ago (90% of the team's current age) they were making legitimately competitive cars.

Has the Williams approach suddenly stopped working over the last 4 years? Or has every other team just blown it up to a higher level?

I remember that almost all other teams back then had crippling problems with funding, politics, and general drama. Williams at least avoided those problems. Are all the other teams simply much better now that they've solved their previous self-inflicted wounds?
I remember watching a Dewar Automotive Trophy video of Pat Symonds from a couple of years ago and he said quite explicitly that Force India at the time got the new aero regulations and their aero concept right, whereas Williams did not. This highlights the importance of getting things right from the very outset and putting all resources to where it's needed (in effect betting the house on a particular technical aspect of the car). One is doomed if it falls behind on something significant (aero and/or engine), or goes down the wrong road on something (aero) so to speak. I think this is what's happening at Williams at the moment and their problems are compounded by alleged in-fighting between team member.

Espresso
Espresso
7
Joined: 13 Dec 2017, 15:03

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

I'm trying to find the overhead image. Happened at Barcelona during initial roll-out.
You can see it here a little bit, maybe someone can link that photo.....

But a picture speaks a thousand words.....

Williams Team was standing side-by-side as a team....
Image
...and somewhere Claire was standing isolated with an 'invisible 2 meter radius' shield activated.

Image

What management style to implement is up to Williams. As long as all noses point the same direction it could lead to success. It now seems like a showdown: Team vs Management
Do you feel the need to post, comment or criticize in this forum?
Please substantiate (why, how, what) your reply!
This is no twitter or chatbox but a forum.

Stay friendly and keep away bashing, trolling & baiting from our wonderful technical forum. --> Forum Guide

Capharol
Capharol
21
Joined: 04 Nov 2018, 17:06

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Espresso wrote:
28 Mar 2019, 13:22
I'm trying to find the overhead image. Happened at Barcelona during initial roll-out.
You can see it here a little bit, maybe someone can link that photo.....

But a picture speaks a thousand words.....

Williams Team was standing side-by-side as a team....
https://www.ciencia-ficcion.com/series/ ... ctores.jpg
...and somewhere Claire was standing isolated with an 'invisible 2 meter radius' shield activated.

https://c7.alamy.com/comp/RP2HJA/barcel ... RP2HJA.jpg

What management style to implement is up to Williams. As long as all noses point the same direction it could lead to success. It now seems like a showdown: Team vs Management
that is your interpretation of that picture ..... and unless you know it exactly, i find it a bit bold to assume something like Team v Management. :roll:

maybe the management stood offside a bit, because they didn't want to stand in the way ...

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
61
Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

Capharol wrote:
28 Mar 2019, 15:09
Espresso wrote:
28 Mar 2019, 13:22
I'm trying to find the overhead image. Happened at Barcelona during initial roll-out.
You can see it here a little bit, maybe someone can link that photo.....

But a picture speaks a thousand words.....

Williams Team was standing side-by-side as a team....
https://www.ciencia-ficcion.com/series/ ... ctores.jpg
...and somewhere Claire was standing isolated with an 'invisible 2 meter radius' shield activated.

https://c7.alamy.com/comp/RP2HJA/barcel ... RP2HJA.jpg

What management style to implement is up to Williams. As long as all noses point the same direction it could lead to success. It now seems like a showdown: Team vs Management
that is your interpretation of that picture ..... and unless you know it exactly, i find it a bit bold to assume something like Team v Management. :roll:

maybe the management stood offside a bit, because they didn't want to stand in the way ...
actually, i agree with Espresso on the matter. I have noticed it too. There doesn't seem to be much cohesion.
Then again, understandably, no matter the cause or reason, team morale is low, no doubt about it. and when that happens people more or less automatically go into some sort of 'isolation' mode. When morale is high and good, everybody automatically 'creeps' up to eachother and is much more communicative and befriended.
Still, whether the image provided shows exactly which is claimed or not, in any case, it does represent the williams situation pretty well:

people looking, staring, and standing around a car with no idea what or what not to do, and a team principal with her arms crossed in a closed attitude.

Let's see what's gonna happen this weekend, even though it's not much better than Australia it seems:

https://www.racefans.net/2019/03/28/rus ... f-new-car/
Russell: Williams still suffering from “rushed” completion of new car

George Russell says Williams is still feeling the consequences of the the “rushed” completion of its car at the beginning of the season.

Williams made a delayed start to testing and did not have all the parts ready for its new car when it finally ran for the first time. Russell says there are gains the team can make in that area.

“The main limitation is aero and the downforce side of things,” he said. “Obviously as things were rushed probably the quality isn’t up to their normal standard and we are lacking a bit in that department.

“I think our overall package is probably better than what we’re showing at the moment. Not better that we’ll be moving forward but better that we’ll probably be a couple of tenths ahead. So even if we just make the most of what we’ve got we would go forward.”

However Russell acknowledges it will take a long time for Williams to close on their rivals, who were well over a second per lap faster at the season-opening Australian Grand Prix.

“There is certainly light at the end of the tunnel but that tunnel’s quite far away. We’ve just got to not do anything drastic because at the end of the day even if you’re one of the top three teams you can’t just overcome that lap time in a day, a week, a month or whatever.

“It’s a process. The team made it clear from the end of last year that this is a longer-term project for them and we’re not looking in short term.”

Russell explained the shortcomings with the team’s current car are different from its troubled predecessor.

“Last year it was quite clear they had drive-ability issues. Whereas at the moment the drive-ability is not perfect [but] I certainly have good confidence to push the car. We’re just missing the grip compared to the others.

“It’s positive in some ways that we’ve got sort of the foundations to build on but like I said the guys in the wind tunnel, you can’t just wake up and you find a second or two in downforce, it’s a long process, it takes time.”
and

https://www.racefans.net/2019/03/28/kub ... -shortage/

Kubica has to avoid kerbs due to parts shortage

Robert Kubica says he will have to stay off the kerbs during this weekend’s Bahrain Grand Prix because Williams is short of parts to repair his car with

“It’s not an easy situation from the driver point of view because we will be limited with spare parts and everything,” said Kubica in Bahrain.

“Looking at what happened to me in Friday in Australia in FP1 by going on top of one kerb I get a damaged floor and we didn’t have bits to replace it. It affected probably all weekend. It’s something where you have to have a safe approach.”

Kubica said his floor was damaged on the fifth lap of practice. Williams does not have a replacement floor for his car but has repaired the damage incurred in Melbourne.

“The team is trying to get us the best car we can have to drive,” said Kubica. “But on the other hand I think in a perfect world you would have fresher parts starting a weekend and having some spare parts in a good state.

“The thing is it’s already a very difficult car to drive – not difficult, but we are lacking the grip. If we are having the parts not at 100 percent we are limiting ourselves as well.

“The situation is not perfect but still the guys and everybody is trying to do their best. We have to do the best with what we have.”

Kubica said the team’s parts shortage is exacerbating the problems they have with its FW42 chassis, which was over a second off the pace of its rivals in Australia and slower than the team’ 2018 car.

“We have this [since] Barcelona that often we are driving with the car which is not up to the best shape it can be.

“This is another factor we’ve got to make sure we get on top of it as soon as possible because also it is putting the driver in a difficult position. Because we are talking today but knowing tomorrow the situation is like it is, you cannot go over the kerbs – or you can go over the kerbs but the risk is the car will fall apart and then you have no parts to fit them.

“It is already lacking performance and we are adding another factor which is complicating our life. I know in the factory everybody is working hard. We just need a bit more time to fix the second issue but the first I’m not in a position to answer.”
Russell mentions there's light at the end of the tunnel, but that tunnel is still a long long way. and it seems they're moving very slow.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

marmer
marmer
1
Joined: 21 Apr 2017, 06:48

Re: 2019 Williams F1 Team - Mercedes

Post

The fact that you don't have parts for the 2nd race is rather alarming. A week off to prep especially something like a floor that's is often an easily damaged part you would want plenty of spares for it.