Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[3jawchuck]

Before the race Magnussen had his spark plugs replaced, so some mechanic dropped something through that tiny hole and poof.

Seriously though, wouldn't it be the case that if it was a valve failing then that engine is toast? Wouldn't something like that damage at least the piston, probably head and maybe block? If so I doubt that is covered by service regulations, although I don't know entirely what is serviceable.

[horse]

So rather than the full 900bhp they were running 560?? nope.

To me it seems like its much more a question of torque rather than power. The car looks like its getting near to its top output by the the end of the straights, but it has no torque to deliver at the beginning of them.

Button complained of massive fuel saving today, which makes me think they are just running with the ICE alone. No torque (turbo lag?) and no fuel efficiency seems like a huge pointer to all the clever electric gismos being turned off.

[langwadt]

Before the race Magnussen had his spark plugs replaced, so some mechanic dropped something through that tiny hole and poof.

Seriously though, wouldn't it be the case that if it was a valve failing then that engine is toast? Wouldn't something like that damage at least the piston, probably head and maybe block? If so I doubt that is covered by service regulations, although I don't know entirely what is serviceable.

I doubt they are allowed to replaces valves, and even if they were it couldn't possibly include the side effects, that would be massive loophole in the regulations

[GoranF1]

If i were Honda i would try 8 engines this year and took penalties for it.

[cossie]

Cosworth anyone. They have. One built.

[Facts Only]

Kevins engine expiring on the warm-up:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnospzxD0cM

Jacky told it could be a valve. Now they are allowed to replaced the valves, so hopefully it's something like this and keep using that engine.

Looks like a burst Turbine wheel to me, the size of metal chunk and how quickly it exits the exhaust gives me that impression.

The initial plume of smoke would be the bearing oil coming through as the pressure in the turbine wheel dropped, the second bigger plume would be from the actual turbine wheel seals breaking up.

If I am right (I might be lucky) then the engine itself may be O.K with a new Turbo.

[frosty125]

According to a translated interview by Arai in the Japanese media, the ICE could not be optimally due to air intake temperatures getting too high. So this might be fixed with more intercooler cooling?

Also there are some issues with the level of MGU-K harvesting he doesn't say what the issue is but probably it relates to the seal and heat issues.

[diffuser]

Kevins engine expiring on the warm-up:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnospzxD0cM

Jacky told it could be a valve. Now they are allowed to replaced the valves, so hopefully it's something like this and keep using that engine.

Looks like a burst Turbine wheel to me, the size of metal chunk and how quickly it exits the exhaust gives me that impression.

The initial plume of smoke would be the bearing oil coming through as the pressure in the turbine wheel dropped, the second bigger plume would be from the actual turbine wheel seals breaking up.

If I am right (I might be lucky) then the engine itself may be O.K with a new Turbo.

Yep, not pretty.

[diffuser]

http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/ ... 1-23_0.pdf


Page 83-85 (Appendix 2 article 5.22) everything marked EXE is replaceable.

mainly hoses,wiring, screws, brackets and seals kind of stuff.

[Alexgtt]

[/quote]

Looks like a burst Turbine wheel to me, the size of metal chunk and how quickly it exits the exhaust gives me that impression.

The initial plume of smoke would be the bearing oil coming through as the pressure in the turbine wheel dropped, the second bigger plume would be from the actual turbine wheel seals breaking up.

If I am right (I might be lucky) then the engine itself may be O.K with a new Turbo.[/quote]


My impression as well but could have been caused by bits from the engine.

Someone said about a valve failure earlier. A valve failure would certainly damage heads, pistons, block, etc. so no way that engine would run again if valve failure. A valve isn't big enough to pass into an exhaust port. It would be completely mashed to do so and anything it gets mashed by will be wrecked. It's not rocket science.

[GoranF1]

Post race Arai interview
http://as-web.jp/new...c_id=1&no=63881

I think for Kevin this race will be one of his very few outings for this season, and we're extremely sorry for him. We have to identify the cause.
(Magnussen's engine got its spark plug and ignition coil exchanged between quali and race)
I dont think that is the cause. Right now Kevin's car is still under wrapping so we dont know what really happened yet, but it's apparent from footage that something went wrong with engine. Kevin said power down as well. We are talking with Mclaren about what we should do, either remove the engine from car here or bring back the car to the factory intact without touching.

we're using MGU-K, but, for example if you use up MGU-K power, you then can only recharge it (so i guess they aren't able to recover enough energy yet?), so we were running with such setting to make ends meet energy wise. Put our side of effort aside, the driver was working hard with his skill, like saving fuel usage, coasting (run by inertia), and was running by setting the target on bringing the car to the checquered flag. I take my hat off to Jenson.
Suppose we finished 10th today, surely we'd be pleased if we were told to do so, but that would be difficult. That's not our objective. We have to raise our game to be able to make proper battle, otherwise there's no point to do F1 as a supplier.
(on fastest lap time of 1:33:338)
We have to be on par with competitors. In order for that, it's not about how fast the time goes, but rather about "how strong we must be at least to have any slightest chance to compete", so we only have to work setting the target there. Take quali result as an example, if you have such big gap, you cannot have decent racing even if you want to. For today, we had no choice but to go on to race like that.

Very exhausted. It sure was very tough weekend. Only positive is that Jenson could finish the race. Really small step, but we think we could make a step forward. We knew it would be tough race before coming here. In such circumstance, that we could see the flag is the only positive point. As for negatives and regrettable, you can go on listing endlessly. We only have to do it all over again.
regarding the heat issue, when the temp of intake air gets high, we have to apply insufficient mapping to the engine itself too. There, if you apply impromptu mapping then it would likely damage engine so we dont do that. We couldnt withdraw all from power unit. Lack of preparation so regrettable outcome. We'd like to accept this outcome sincerely and work hard.
We do not intend to change our approach. We'll go the way that we believe in intently. That's the way Mclaren and we decided to take. We believe result should follow

[PlatinumZealot]

With all respect to Jacky I don't thinkt it's a valve. There are pieces flying behind the car, as enri_the_red noticed, probably through the exhaust. Even if not through the exhaust there was a substantial failure in the engine and it is not a valve that has to be replaced but whole turbo, head, engine block or one of the ERSes.

You have to give a thought to jackie here... Remeber he is coming from the days when engines exploded like pinatas and pretty much showered the track with parts...

[diffuser]

If i were Honda i would try 8 engines this year and took penalties for it.

If I understand the new rules correctly, the replacement of a whole PU would incur a 25 position grid penalty. 5 places for every component of the PU. Unlike 2014, that penalty isn't carried over to the next races.

Not that bad I guess.

[diffuser]

With all respect to Jacky I don't thinkt it's a valve. There are pieces flying behind the car, as enri_the_red noticed, probably through the exhaust. Even if not through the exhaust there was a substantial failure in the engine and it is not a valve that has to be replaced but whole turbo, head, engine block or one of the ERSes.

You have to give a thought to jackie here... Remeber he is coming from the days when engines exploded like pinatas and pretty much showered the track with parts...

I was thinking the same thing.

[langwadt]

If i were Honda i would try 8 engines this year and took penalties for it.

If I understand the new rules correctly, the replacement of a whole PU would incur a 25 position grid penalty. 5 places for every component of the PU. Unlike 2014, that penalty isn't carried over to the next races.

Not that bad I guess.

but instead of carrying over they get a time penalty for the race for the remaining penalty