2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Jeddah, Dec 03 - 05

[subcritical71]

I do agree, although sometimes it can be more distracting to try and consciously ease off a touch. You might lose too much time or make a mistake because your thought process isn’t clear any longer. I guess it’s easy to say after the fact! The line between hero and zero is very thin.

That’s where experience comes in. This is not in anyway a dig at Verstappen as he’ll learn from this. But I can’t see an older head making that mistake. Impetuousness of youth and all that.

He may be young but he has plenty experience by now. Pretty tiresome to read the same thing over and over again. Hamilton with all his experience has made a lot more mistakes than Verstappen. Its a driver digging deep to beat another driver who is amazingly fast. Both make mistakes from time to time. No amount of experience will change that.

Agree with you and to just to add a little. Show me a driver who has made no mistakes and I'll show you a driver who lacks experience.

[Restomaniac]

The 0.4sec are in comparison to Verstappens previous fast lap and what we see on the dashboard.
So he was at that point maybe 0.2s clear to Hamilton.

That’s not what he said.

So Horner said really Verstappen was 0.4s clear to Hamilton in last corner....
OK Verstappens dash must have been wrong

They asked about him risking it with time in his pocket (paraphrasing). He said he was 4/10ths up.
Don’t like it? Take it up with Horner.

[Gillian]

It’s also tiresome when some jump to a drivers defence due to their allegiance when unneeded due to an imagined slight.

I appreciate Hamilton as much as Verstappen so that's a mute point.

You claim it's about experience and I say it's not. This entire season shows its not about experience at all, but about having the best car and coping with pressure. Experience changes little in that.

It’s actually ‘moot’ point.

But if you think drivers with years more on the clock won’t know when it’s time to just take pole instead of pushing that extra inch then you go for it.

Sorry but English is not my native language.

Your point isn't valid because he did not have pole in the bag like you keep saying.

[Gillian]

That’s where experience comes in. This is not in anyway a dig at Verstappen as he’ll learn from this. But I can’t see an older head making that mistake. Impetuousness of youth and all that.

He may be young but he has plenty experience by now. Pretty tiresome to read the same thing over and over again. Hamilton with all his experience has made a lot more mistakes than Verstappen. Its a driver digging deep to beat another driver who is amazingly fast. Both make mistakes from time to time. No amount of experience will change that.

Agree with you and to just to add a little. Show me a driver who has made no mistakes and I'll show you a driver who lacks experience.

That's a good one indeed!

[Restomaniac]

Horner himself said Verstappen had 4/10ths when taking to Sky.

For me I just think he got in the ‘I’ve gotta push and make this ultra amazing’ mindset. I imagine an older driver (Kimi, Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Ricciardo, etc) would have seen their delta and just finished what would have been a pole Lap.

I do think he will learn from this though. Drivers generally do. As a good example Hamilton in Turkey in 2020 said that one of the reasons he didn’t pit at the end for fresh Inters was because of a certain incident in China. He didn’t want to not be in a situation where he couldn’t stop on a slippy pit entry again.

The 0.4sec are in comparison to Verstappens previous fast lap and what we see on the dashboard.
So he was at that point maybe 0.2s clear to Hamilton.

Exactly.

Verstappen did not have pole in the bag like that. He went all in because that was the only way to get pole position. When the front tire locked he had to choose between waiting a little longer to accelerate or try and make it. Imo he should have bailed out but in that split second he choose to try and make it.

If he had bailed out the result would have been the same but no damage.

There was no margin to take it easy and safely roll to pole position...

Who said take it easy? I said it’s about knowing when you don’t need to keep pushing like mad. Wanna know when that is? When you’ve got time in your pocket with 1 corner to go.

[Restomaniac]

I appreciate Hamilton as much as Verstappen so that's a mute point.

You claim it's about experience and I say it's not. This entire season shows its not about experience at all, but about having the best car and coping with pressure. Experience changes little in that.

It’s actually ‘moot’ point.

But if you think drivers with years more on the clock won’t know when it’s time to just take pole instead of pushing that extra inch then you go for it.

Sorry but English is not my native language.

Your point isn't valid because he did not have pole in the bag like you keep saying.

Of course he did because had time in his pocket going into the last corner. To suggest otherwise is denying reality.

[El Scorchio]

It’s probably age more than experience to an extent. If using Hamilton as an example, he was just like Verstappen when he was a similar age. Alonso too. With age (and experience) comes a little pragmatism to throw on the burning fire. Of course they all make mistakes and indeed the longer a driver has been driving naturally they will have made more in total over the course of a much longer career (I’ll wager the vast majority of mistakes made by Hamilton and Alonso were in their first 5 years or so in the sport) but on the whole they become slightly more risk averse and ‘live to fight another day’.

[Restomaniac]

It’s probably age more than experience to an extent. If using Hamilton as an example, he was just like Verstappen when he was a similar age. Alonso too. With age (and experience) comes a little pragmatism to throw on the burning fire. Of course they all make mistakes and indeed the longer a driver has been driving naturally they will have made more in total over the course of a much longer career (I’ll wager the vast majority of mistakes made by Hamilton and Alonso were in their first 5 years or so in the sport) but on the whole they become slightly more risk averse and ‘live to fight another day’.

Exactly. It’s the whole ‘been there, done that’ thing.

I doubt Verstappen will ever make that mistake again when he’s got that kind of time in his pocket.

[siskue2005]

https://fb.watch/9IuqLxpa6N/

[Gillian]

The 0.4sec are in comparison to Verstappens previous fast lap and what we see on the dashboard.
So he was at that point maybe 0.2s clear to Hamilton.

Exactly.

Verstappen did not have pole in the bag like that. He went all in because that was the only way to get pole position. When the front tire locked he had to choose between waiting a little longer to accelerate or try and make it. Imo he should have bailed out but in that split second he choose to try and make it.

If he had bailed out the result would have been the same but no damage.

There was no margin to take it easy and safely roll to pole position...

Who said take it easy? I said it’s about knowing when you don’t need to keep pushing like mad. Wanna know when that is? When you’ve got time in your pocket with 1 corner to go.

I agree with that, truly do. But you misunderstand the sequence of events.

What happened is Verstappen locked a front tire and with that, all advantage he had was gone. You can check the live timings if you don't believe it.

The mistake Verstappen made came after that. He went on the throttle too early. If he had not done that, he would not have hit the wall. But he would not have had pole either. That's a mistake I think any driver fighting for a WDC would have made.

The logic you are applying is he should have taken the entire last corner easier. That implies he tried to gain more time in that last corner. If that's the case, I agree with you.

It's however not. Check back his qualifying laps and you will see he did not do anything weird in the last corner. If anything, he braked similar to his former lap which means he already wasn't as "on edge" as he had been the entire lap.

If you check the footage and still don't agree that's fine. I will shut up now.

[Restomaniac]

https://fb.watch/9IuqLxpa6N/

Yeah I saw that earlier if you see it a bit earlier Ricciardo was also there looking shocked too. ‘He’s pushing’ and ‘Back to reality’ says it all.

[El Scorchio]

Exactly.

Verstappen did not have pole in the bag like that. He went all in because that was the only way to get pole position. When the front tire locked he had to choose between waiting a little longer to accelerate or try and make it. Imo he should have bailed out but in that split second he choose to try and make it.

If he had bailed out the result would have been the same but no damage.

There was no margin to take it easy and safely roll to pole position...

Who said take it easy? I said it’s about knowing when you don’t need to keep pushing like mad. Wanna know when that is? When you’ve got time in your pocket with 1 corner to go.

I agree with that, truly do. But you misunderstand the sequence of events.

What happened is Verstappen locked a front tire and with that, all advantage he had was gone. You can check the live timings if you don't believe it.

The mistake Verstappen made came after that. He went on the throttle too early. If he had not done that, he would not have hit the wall. But he would not have had pole either. That's a mistake I think any driver fighting for a WDC would have made.

The logic you are applying is he should have taken the entire last corner easier. That implies he tried to gain more time in that last corner. If that's the case, I agree with you.

It's however not. Check back his qualifying laps and you will see he did not do anything weird in the last corner. If anything, he braked similar to his former lap which means he already wasn't as "on edge" as he had been the entire lap.

If you check the footage and still don't agree that's fine. I will shut up now.

The mistake is locking the front tyre, no?

[Restomaniac]

Exactly.

Verstappen did not have pole in the bag like that. He went all in because that was the only way to get pole position. When the front tire locked he had to choose between waiting a little longer to accelerate or try and make it. Imo he should have bailed out but in that split second he choose to try and make it.

If he had bailed out the result would have been the same but no damage.

There was no margin to take it easy and safely roll to pole position...

Who said take it easy? I said it’s about knowing when you don’t need to keep pushing like mad. Wanna know when that is? When you’ve got time in your pocket with 1 corner to go.

I agree with that, truly do. But you misunderstand the sequence of events.

What happened is Verstappen locked a front tire and with that, all advantage he had was gone. You can check the live timings if you don't believe it.

The mistake Verstappen made came after that. He went on the throttle too early. If he had not done that, he would not have hit the wall. But he would not have had pole either. That's a mistake I think any driver fighting for a WDC would have made.

The logic you are applying is he should have taken the entire last corner easier. That implies he tried to gain more time in that last corner. If that's the case, I agree with you.

It's however not. Check back his qualifying laps and you will see he did not do anything weird in the last corner. If anything, he braked similar to his former lap which means he already wasn't as "on edge" as he had been the entire lap.

If you check the footage and still don't agree that's fine. I will shut up now.

Yes he snatched a wheel. He didn’t need to. Braking 10M earlier and he makes that corner no problems and gets pole. He doesn’t lose 2/10ths by not pushing ultra hard into the last corner. Nobody has said he needed to back out but just know when he doesn’t need to push. He didn’t need to get time in his pocket for pole twice he already had it.

I can safely say Alonso would have known he already had pole and just made sure he crossed the line to claim it.

[Bargesmops]

I'm still not over the yellow flag incedent.. There is no such thing as accidentally yellow, because the driver can not know that. So yellow is yellow and ignoring it means penalty. So dit he ignore it or not..the footage shows he does so.. for f sake be consequent... What am I missing?

[214270]

Exactly.

Verstappen did not have pole in the bag like that. He went all in because that was the only way to get pole position. When the front tire locked he had to choose between waiting a little longer to accelerate or try and make it. Imo he should have bailed out but in that split second he choose to try and make it.

If he had bailed out the result would have been the same but no damage.

There was no margin to take it easy and safely roll to pole position...

Who said take it easy? I said it’s about knowing when you don’t need to keep pushing like mad. Wanna know when that is? When you’ve got time in your pocket with 1 corner to go.

I agree with that, truly do. But you misunderstand the sequence of events.

What happened is Verstappen locked a front tire and with that, all advantage he had was gone. You can check the live timings if you don't believe it.

The mistake Verstappen made came after that. He went on the throttle too early. If he had not done that, he would not have hit the wall. But he would not have had pole either. That's a mistake I think any driver fighting for a WDC would have made.

The logic you are applying is he should have taken the entire last corner easier. That implies he tried to gain more time in that last corner. If that's the case, I agree with you.

It's however not. Check back his qualifying laps and you will see he did not do anything weird in the last corner. If anything, he braked similar to his former lap which means he already wasn't as "on edge" as he had been the entire lap.

If you check the footage and still don't agree that's fine. I will shut up now.

He was 10kph faster than his previous into the final corner. He may have braked a touch earlier, but it wasn’t by a sufficient amount to account for the overspeed.