McLaren Wheel Nuts

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myurr
myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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Nando wrote:
Lycoming wrote:Why would they give their championship leader the worse car? Completely baseless statement (AKA BS), but people are going to jump on it and run with it.
I would not say completely baseless.
Just by looking at the numbers it is either a problem Jenson had that magically disappeared for the next event.

Or this magic problem that bothered Jenson´s car transferred over to Hamilton´s car.

I´m not saying any of it is true but just look at the numbers and i think we can agree they do look a bit fishy.
and prone to start conspiracies.
No it's completely baseless. There's nothing magic about it, they have either a design flaw or a procedural flaw. Once that wheel had gone wrong on Hamilton's car it was going to go wrong at the other two stops as well as there was probably a bit of damage to that corner of the car. So really you're turning two events (a failure on Jenson's car and a failure on Lewis's car) into a conspiracy.

Richard
Richard
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Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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Try to keep this technical please, conspiracy theories are a waste of forum space

RickRick
RickRick
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Joined: 30 Aug 2011, 17:21

Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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I'm sure something could be done with a fixed wheel bolt/nut that is always part of the hub, but when it's screwed in/out it spreads or shrinks some claws or tapered parts that fit into the wheel, obviously needs a bit more detailed thinking, but if the nut/bolt never needed to leave the thread completley it couldn't be cross threaded

mzivtins
mzivtins
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Joined: 29 Feb 2012, 12:41

Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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I'm really digging the idea of hydraulic clamps that clamp the wheel on... in a comedy fashion, you could release all the wheels at once in a crash-test-dummies kind of way... just like the front end of the STR that must have thought "Oh sh1t, there's a corner coming, what is the best way to approach this? hmmm i know!! JETISON THE WHEELS!!!" :lol:

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Last edited by mzivtins on 25 Apr 2012, 12:32, edited 1 time in total.

Nando
Nando
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Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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myurr wrote:No it's completely baseless. There's nothing magic about it, they have either a design flaw or a procedural flaw. Once that wheel had gone wrong on Hamilton's car it was going to go wrong at the other two stops as well as there was probably a bit of damage to that corner of the car. So really you're turning two events (a failure on Jenson's car and a failure on Lewis's car) into a conspiracy.
I never said it was magic or that it was a conspiracy theory.
I said that simply by looking at the left rear from China to Bahrain, that it´s the same problem.

Just that it dissappeared from Button´s car and for some reason only affected Hamilton in Bahrain.

I´m sure they run identical rear axles and nuts and bolts to keep the wheel in place.
So why did this only affect Button in China, Why did it only affect Hamilton in Bahrain?
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

Richard
Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
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Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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Probability plays tricks on the human mind. Count all the pit stops this season and perhaps they've had the same failure rate this season?

As for it being the rear left each time, that could be related to the corner immediately before the pits changing the loading on that wheel?

bettonracing
bettonracing
1
Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 15:57

Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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Couple thoughts:

While the Higbee thread modification is likely to help (possibly eliminate) the problem, it's certainly not impossible to cross thread them - particularly with the high torque levels and the instantaneous torque from the wheel guns.

The hydraulic wheel attachment could also be pneumatic. The wheel gun could release the pressure for wheel removal, and add pressure for installation. Or vice-versa, use a mechanical spring to lock the wheel, and the wheel gun adds pneumatic pressure to release the spring (and thus the wheel). This could potentially eliminate the wheel gun for wheel installation, only requiring it for wheel removal...

Hell, you could eliminate wheel guns altogether if the pneumatic system was integrated into the car and activated by the jacks. Jack the car up and an instantaneous pressure surge makes the wheels fall off. Any new wheels securely installed while in the air would require another manual operation to be released.


Regards,
Kurt Betton

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FrukostScones
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Joined: 25 May 2010, 17:41
Location: European Union

Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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do we have already pictures of the wheelsnuts,hubs, rims, wheel guns etc. of McLaren?
Finishing races is important, but racing is more important.

myurr
myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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richard_leeds wrote:Probability plays tricks on the human mind. Count all the pit stops this season and perhaps they've had the same failure rate this season?

As for it being the rear left each time, that could be related to the corner immediately before the pits changing the loading on that wheel?
That's an interesting point, as when they're practicing the pit stops away from a race weekend don't they just push the car in straight?

Trocola
Trocola
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Joined: 25 Jan 2012, 19:22
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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myurr wrote:
richard_leeds wrote:Probability plays tricks on the human mind. Count all the pit stops this season and perhaps they've had the same failure rate this season?

As for it being the rear left each time, that could be related to the corner immediately before the pits changing the loading on that wheel?
That's an interesting point, as when they're practicing the pit stops away from a race weekend don't they just push the car in straight?
That could be possible in China, but in Bahrain the box entry is straight


Trocola

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strad
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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it's certainly not impossible to cross thread them
Yes it is...You cannot cross thread it because of the way the thread is finished off...
A "Higbee," also known as a Quick Start Thread, is a modification to the first thread . The thread is machined back from the end until the cross section of the thread is full, in other words looks like a fully formed triangle. Mating threads go together and start quickly. There is no partial, or thin thread to be rolled over and jam the connection.The full strength of the thread is available as soon as mating threads are connected.
"Blunt start" designates the removal of the incomplete thread at the starting end of the thread. This is a feature of threaded parts that are repeatedly assembled by hand, such as hose couplings and thread plug gages, to prevent cutting of hands and crossing of threads. It was formerly known as a Higbee cut.
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Nando
Nando
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Joined: 10 Mar 2012, 02:30

Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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richard_leeds wrote:Probability plays tricks on the human mind. Count all the pit stops this season and perhaps they've had the same failure rate this season?

As for it being the rear left each time, that could be related to the corner immediately before the pits changing the loading on that wheel?
Yea i think what is more interesting is that it´s the same corner.
No matter who was driving.

Could be as you say the fact that the tracks are clockwise or something to do with corner before pit entry.

It´s a bit odd though that it´s the same corner for both and when it happens to one of them it doesn´t happen to the other.

Again, not saying there´s a conspiracy, just looking at the numbers..
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."

bettonracing
bettonracing
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Joined: 12 Oct 2007, 15:57

Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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strad wrote:
The full strength of the thread is available as soon as mating threads are connected.
When the tightenting torque exceeds the 'strength of the thread' (a function of the thread material, the thread geometry and the amount of misalignment of the two threads) it will crossthread.

Applications using relatively low initial torque (such as firefighting) and low contact speed (between the male higbee thread and the 1st female thread) it is effectively impossible to crossthread, but high torque + high contact speed [such as F1 wheelguns, & military applications] CAN cause crossthreading.

Some military applications adapt the angle of the higbee cut to accomodate higher speeds or slow speed [extremely high torque].

While it certainly reduces the likelihood of it, crossthreading is NOT impossible with the higbee cut.

Regards,
Kurt

myurr
myurr
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Joined: 20 Mar 2008, 21:58

Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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Trocola wrote:
myurr wrote:
richard_leeds wrote:Probability plays tricks on the human mind. Count all the pit stops this season and perhaps they've had the same failure rate this season?

As for it being the rear left each time, that could be related to the corner immediately before the pits changing the loading on that wheel?
That's an interesting point, as when they're practicing the pit stops away from a race weekend don't they just push the car in straight?
That could be possible in China, but in Bahrain the box entry is straight


Trocola
It may be a shallower angle, but the car still be going straight down the pit lane before turning right then left into the pit box. That final move will place a load against the wheel nuts on the left hand side of the car - the problem side thus far. It may only be a marginal thing but could be contributing IMHO.

Trocola
Trocola
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Joined: 25 Jan 2012, 19:22
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: McLaren Wheel Nuts

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myurr wrote: It may be a shallower angle, but the car still be going straight down the pit lane before turning right then left into the pit box. That final move will place a load against the wheel nuts on the left hand side of the car - the problem side thus far. It may only be a marginal thing but could be contributing IMHO.
If that's the case, the problem should be in all pit stops, not just the last two races. I think it is more a human error than anything else.

Other idea: maybe the wheel nuts are new for this two races and haven't been tested properly in race conditions...


Trocola