Mecedes AMG Formula One Team today announced that Ross Brawn will step down from his position at the end of 2013. The team states it has full confidence in its new management structure to take over the loss of their team principal.
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Brawn to Williams is a long shot, but it would be a second favourite behind Mclaren.
Pointers in Williams favour include, as pup pointed out, that Williams isn't getting any younger.
There is also the fact Williams will be using mercedes ponies next year.
Brawn has worked with Brackley for 5 years now.
He also has some cash to plough into the team.
Ferrari are outsiders too.
But I cant see how he would want to go back to maranello and up sticks at his age.
Faustino wrote:My point was that Paddy Lowe would have been taken off development of this years car at a very early stage. So it's essentially a half complete job. Who knows what they could have achieved if Mercedes did not poach him. Tim Goss was left with a rough sketch of someone else's idea so what could really have been expected of him this year?
It's probably fair to argue that McLaren could have made a better recovery with Lowe, but I think you're ignoring the fact that Lowe's car was a real stinker from the start. And if you take into account their admission that they really didn't know why last year's car was fast, then there's little evidence left of Lowe's mastery of the formula.
In fact, I think there is a very strong argument that the team of Lowe, Fry and Goss never really "got" the current formula. Certainly not in the way that Newey did. (To be fair, I don't think anyone else did either.) McLaren's sometimes success under the current formula has been through clever tricks which only gave them short-lived advantages before those tricks were adapted (often better adapted) to their competitors' cars.
Last edited by Pup on 31 Oct 2013, 19:36, edited 1 time in total.
This hype over Brawn as TP is amazing, two seasons with Honda going backwards, then a flash on a loophole in the new rules, followed by three seasons at Mercedes going nowhere and then finally a couple of wins after hiring every TD on the market?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
Faustino wrote:No, it inferred that Red Bull had Adrian Newey.
I was comparing with Ferrari and drawing the lesson that the team with faster car doesn't necessarily beat the slower car. As I recall it was Ferrari's consistency that helped them get ahead of McLaren that season. That's where the organisation & TP bit has its impact.
Well, if it was "funny", I think the prejudice would have come from other sources. Still, I think he handled it well, when others in the team were screaming to take a much worse settlement.
Brawn will go to Mclaren, no doubt. Maybe not have a clear-cut role in 2014, but in 2015, he'll be spot on team principal.
Martin Whitmarsh' days are over. There have not been the desired success with him in charge, and his 'good spots' are
fading because he himself seems to be losing motivation, especially since Hamilton left. The team is spiraling down in
motivation and what they need is somebody to bring spirit to the team. Whitmarsh does not have these capacities, he's a great political speaker and PR-guy, but not leader material.
I think Brawn already has been offered the Role of Martin Whitmarsh, and whitmarsh becoming PR-guy and stepping aside
for Brawn. Whitmarsh isnt' the kinda guy to jump ship because of that.
Honda undoubtedly wants somebody on the wheel of the team that is able to put the team into a championship contending place, and whitmarsh lacks quality thereof. Both Button and Brawn have had great relations and experience with Honda,
and when Honda left in 2009, Brawn spooned in a Mercedes' engine into the otherwise 100% honda car. I wouldn't even be surprised if BrawnGP would have had similar results if Honda never left and there was a Honda plant in the back instead of a Merc engine. Honda still supported BrawnGP to the fullest, they just didn't bring engine work.
Honda undoubtedly saw what Brawn did back in '09, and with that in mind, they'd be keen to attract Brawn again with the Merc deal. They want all the keys for success, and Whitmarsh isn't. Brawn did do good with Merc the past years, and this year aswell, and if anybody can manage drivers well it's brawn, so there will be no miss regarding that when he replaces Whitmarsh at Mclaren. And Brawn not being the 'sponsor-wonder' like Jordan or Sauber [Mind you, saubers cars were quite empty, too, remember?] doesn't change anything - Mclaren doesn't need that nor does Honda. Mclaren-Honda as a team itself will attract enough just for that.
It'll be Mclaren-Honda with Brawn at the wheel, with Button and Perez or Button and Massa. However, unless Perez' will up his game next year and regain his 'hunger for success-style' he showed early-season when ordered to be more agressive or back when he was with sauber - i can only see Perez' fading away. Which would be a shame, because Perez' has great potential. I don't see the same 'hunger' in Perez' attitude, and i noticed the same with Hamilton when Whitmarsh replaced Ron Dennis. I really think Whitmarsh is failing huge in motivating their drivers the RIGHT way. I've seen it growing in Button aswell.
I think Brawn arriving could motivate everybody in the team into the right direction, and giving the drivers just what they need. Would do wonders for Cheko, which - not in his league, but - has shown Senna characteristics. Those need to be embraced, instead downgraded.
Cheko's position has notably been 'under threat' but it sounds highly illogical for Mclaren to dump him straight away after
this year when mclaren themselves did lousy work this year. And who'd replace him in 2014? Alonso surely not, and I just don't see it happening, ever again, alonso at mclaren, even if Honda would like the thought of that. Alonso te replace
a failing Ricciardo after 2014 for Redbull? Maybe. And replacing Perez' with a rookie Magnussen sounds way too big of a
risk aswell. It worked with Hamilton, but there is no guarantee for Magnussen to do the same. And the last Honda would
like is a rookie entering 2015 at their very first mclaren re-run. So if not Perez, they'll want another well experienced development driver, and I can only see Massa in that spot. But I think higher of Perez then he has shown last couple of races. Did well in India, btw.
Combo of a thirsty, fiery or 'agressive' driver with a well-matured experienced second driver [button obviously] sounds like the right ingredients to kick Mclaren back to the top. And I couldn't see it happening without Brawn.
And i don't see Brawn EVER going back to ferrari, that doesn't sound like Brawn's own preferable choice neither does it sound like ferrari's way of thinking. Brawn-Ferrari chapter is done. Williams is a no-go. Neither is Marussia.
Mclaren will have faded backwards even more next year. Brawn is what they need, and he'll have all 2014 to prepare Mclaren into a new Honda era as of 2015 back at the top.
Last edited by Manoah2u on 31 Oct 2013, 20:01, edited 1 time in total.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
“We have a lot of great people in the team so I’m sure the team will be strong either way and I’m really looking forward to seeing what we can do next year."
Second from Mr. Button:
“Ross is a great team leader, he’s very strong and he’s a very confident individual. I think everyone needs someone like Ross in their team. So surprised to see that he’s leaving. There are obviously some reasons for that, but difficult to know what they are.”
I'm not sure those tea leaves are as clear to me. But Button's comments are certainly a bit of a contrast to his "Ross sho ain't commin' here!" comment from a few weeks ago. And Louis' "Meh." doesn't exactly jibe with his original glee over having Brawn as his boss.
Poor Hamilton. This season has been as typical as can be for him. So much promise, only to have it all go wonky. And with Lowe coming and Brawn leaving, I wouldn't blame him for feeling that he's left McLaren only to find himself working for...McLaren?
Last edited by Pup on 31 Oct 2013, 20:14, edited 1 time in total.
Pup wrote:I'm not sure those tea leaves are as clear to me. But Button's comments are certainly a bit of a contrast to his "Ross sho ain't commin' here!" comment from a few weeks ago. And Louis' "Meh." doesn't exactly jibe with his original glee over having Brawn as his boss.
They're non-comittal PR statements. Merc want to re-assure employees and shareholders. We've all seen that in our day jobs when senior people leave, we don't get told "there's no hope, give up and go home".
Equally outsiders say "what a great guy" in case they end working together.
It's all about hedging your bets, covering your backs and saying nothing meaningful until you see what happens.
I think Hamilton left Mclaren's stifling environment more than anything else.
What will be interesting to see is if Lowe imposes this environment on mercedes...which I doubt.
But wouldn't it be a great idea to have Beckham in a McLaren?
You could get Del Pierro in a Ferrari and maybe Lothar Mathais in a mercedes...maybe even Zidane in the Lotus/Renault...any accidents could be explained by the "offside rule" and fouls given a public telling off by a shorts wearing whistle blowing Charlie Whiting.
