Safety of car recovery (and trucks on circuits)

[langwadt]

F1 closed cockpits easy to implement - Smedley
Formula 1's governing body the FIA has conducted experiments with cockpit canopies (pictured, below) and Smedley said it would be a simple process for the sport to introduce them.

"From a technical point of view it's something very easy to implement," Smedley said.

"It's something that we've looked at in lots of the technical working group meetings and we've been back and forwards.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116193

The underlying problems is a car going off at a place where double yellow is waved that should never happen. Those in charge will have figure out why it happend and how to prevent it from happening again.
The car could just as well have hit a marshal, closed cockpits doesn't help then

[i70q7m7ghw]

And canopies are largely irrelevant in this crash. Unless they were over engineered they wouldn't have done much in this scenario. The KEY thing here is that tractor has no place on a race track. To quote my post earlier:-

"Any object hanging high enough for the forward crash structure to pass underneath, but low enough to strike a drivers helmet is a massive danger at any speed."

Leaving Sutil's car where it was would have been safer.

The underlying problems is a car going off at a place where double yellow is waved that should never happen. Those in charge will have figure out why it happend and how to prevent it from happening again.
The car could just as well have hit a marshal, closed cockpits doesn't help then

This.

[KingHamilton01]

Just seen the video, shocking accident! I now think cockpit protection and the safety car need to be changed in light of this accident, Looking back to Massa's incident and they didn't do anything to improve cockpit safety after that. If I am right, they only explored the metal cage infront of the driver and then jet fighter canopy.

F1 shouldn't wait for the next big accident to happen before they prevent another driver being seriously injured. You could argue you this was a freak accident, but still show's the driver's need extra protection.

[Edax]

F1 closed cockpits easy to implement - Smedley
Formula 1's governing body the FIA has conducted experiments with cockpit canopies (pictured, below) and Smedley said it would be a simple process for the sport to introduce them.

"From a technical point of view it's something very easy to implement," Smedley said.

"It's something that we've looked at in lots of the technical working group meetings and we've been back and forwards.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/116193

The underlying problems is a car going off at a place where double yellow is waved that should never happen. Those in charge will have figure out why it happend and how to prevent it from happening again.
The car could just as well have hit a marshal, closed cockpits doesn't help then

Fully agree. Besides, I have some doubts wether a canopy would make a difference. A polycarbonate canopy might be useful in deflecting a piece of spring or a loose tyre, but in this impact I think it would have made little difference. It could have even made the situation more dangerous.

[ScottB]

No amount of canopies or protection would have prevented this.

Not having circuit vehicles with a ground clearance almost exactly at driver head height is what needs to be changed.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Sky have released Max Mosley from his dungeon and asked him some questions about the incident:-

http://www1.skysports.com/f1/news/28593 ... s-accident

[SectorOne]

Not having circuit vehicles with a ground clearance almost exactly at driver head height is what needs to be changed.

Or you know.... just implement a pit limiter window during double yellows. Had there been one there Bianchi would not have been in the hospital.

A similar system is already in place in Le Mans, it´s really not that difficult to just take 5 seconds to look at that and then create one over here as well.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Not having circuit vehicles with a ground clearance almost exactly at driver head height is what needs to be changed.

Or you know.... just implement a pit limiter window during double yellows. Had there been one there Bianchi would not have been in the hospital.

A similar system is already in place in Le Mans, it´s really not that difficult to just take 5 seconds to look at that and then create one over here as well.

He didn't slow down. SO two things are possible. He didn't see the yellows, or he made a choice to ignore them. The same thing could have happened with the pit limiter. He may not have seen the yellows and not activated it, or he could have made a choice not to activate it.

[The_table]

In the telemetry somebody posted i saw ericsson going by at 200+ kph AFTER the Bianchi accident.

I do wonder if slower is actually safer in an F1 car since these cars rely mostly on areodynamic grip?

[SectorOne]

SO two things are possible. He didn't see the yellows, or he made a choice to ignore them. The same thing could have happened with the pit limiter. He may not have seen the yellows and not activated it, or he could have made a choice not to activate it.

Three things are possible. The third being he did see them, chose to only lift slightly and get on it again losing control over the car and created his own accident.

He must have seen it, he was behind Sutil when he went off, most likely got told on the radio there´s yellows there, and since 21 other drivers saw it, chances are he saw them absolutely perfectly.
I doubt he chose to ignore them, why? Because there´s penalties for doing that, not very smart.
Third option is much more likely. A gamble, racing incident and an unfortunate crash because of it.

With a pit limiter he would not have gone off track. And if he did ignore it he would have caused possible brain damage to himself and be banned from the sport forever and have no place being in F1 in the first place.

He seems like a smart kid though so there´s absolutely no reason really to think that he 1, did not see them, and 2, would have chosen to ignore a pit limiter rule.

Start rebuilding tow trucks to be F1 safe is just incredibly inefficient. It´s not just about buying the steel, you need to put down millions in R&D doing crash tests !on a tow truck! (that moves in 360 degree angles at that)

In Le Mans they have a system that works brilliant, it costs virtually nothing in comparison and is a much more realistic option to a relatively simple problem.

think about it, there´s people walking among F1 cars in the pitlane all day every day. It´s a safe solution to this problem.

edit: love this forum, trolls hiding behind downvotes when there´s perfectly logical and rational ideas that are actually used in Motorsport today are presented.

Shows once again the voting system is an absolute joke.

[BanMeToo]

Mate, he was in front of Sutil when Sutil crashed. He never saw the accident until he was sliding toward it, even if he was informed on the radio.

[SectorOne]

Mate, he was in front of Sutil when Sutil crashed. He never saw the accident until he was sliding toward it, even if he was informed on the radio.

My mistake, but still, he was certainly told about it and certainly saw the yellow lights.

On top of that he´s got yellow lights in his own cockpit.

[BanMeToo]

You're right, and like you and others have said there is a larger issue. Bianchi did not take that corner faster than other drivers during the yellow flag lap.

[SectorOne]

Nobody got flashbacks to 2007? Remember this?

Look at 1:34




Three trucks and loads of marshal´s. Drivers still going flat out but with a lift to not break any rules.
A 60km/h pit limiter window there starting from last corner to just after first one would have ensured a super safe environment for the marshals to work in without worrying about getting their heads taken off by a slightly too eager driver thinking about himself and his team.

Edit:

So what is the alternative if the field needs to be brought under control?

We’ve written on these pages before about the Creventic organisation’s ‘Code 60′ system which, when there is an incident requiring the field to be brought under control, sees marshals posts display purple flags or lights requiring the field to reduce their speed to no more than 60km/h.

It’s been used safely and effectively for several years by Creventic, most notably at the Dubai 24 Hours, and I will admit that, before I saw it in operation in person, I was a major sceptic.

It is though universally respected, sensibly enforced (with a combination of visual observation, GPS data and lap time data) and, of course, the Race Director always has the opportunity, should the need arise, to utilise a safety car instead.

It’s advantages are clear: It is a simple procedure, it penalises nobody, and it allows racing to resume, in pretty much the same way it paused, when the ‘purples’ are withdrawn.

I’d like to see it trialled elsewhere, and so too would many competitors, some of whom suggest that it’s just possible perhaps that it suffers principally from the ‘not invented here’ attitude that can sometimes prevail with well established organisations.

Let’s hope that wouldn’t be the case for a measure that could have a positive impact on not just a race, but in overall safety terms too.

http://www.dailysportscar.com/2013/07/3 ... de-60.html

[Richard]

I've updated the title to reflect the actual content of the thread.

Also as I recall, the last F1 driver fatality was in 1994. There have been two marshal fatalities since then - Canada 2012 & Melbourne 2001. Making trucks more crash proof and adding canopies won't help the reduce the fatalities of the most vulnerable people on track.