Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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NathanOlder
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Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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So does that mean that a young player (as an example I will football teams in the UK) dreams of playing for Tottenham and when he turns pro Arsenal picks him and he has to go play for the arch rivals?
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Just_a_fan
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Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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Yay, further Americanisation of F1. Just what we need. #-o

How long before there's a proposal to run on banked ovals... :roll:
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Jolle
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Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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NathanOlder wrote:
21 Oct 2018, 18:03
I dont know anything about the draft systems in the American sports, but am I right in thinking the fresh group of young talent are picked by the teams in a set order and they then have to go play for that team?
That is one of the things that makes it stop being a sport and turns it into a show. Lets try to stay away from that.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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Totally agreed
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Fulcrum
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Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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Is it sport, is it entertainment, is it both? Which comes first?

Shoot me down all you like, but F1 plays the "game" in a manner equivalent to Manchester United playing at home every game, with the wind behind their backs, with the opposition having to run uphill every half; not discounting the fact they already have the best personnel, best facilities, biggest stadiums, and biggest fan bases. All of their competitive advantages do not need to be slanted any further by making the opposition play balanced on 1 leg.

At every level of the sport, there is positive reinforcement for the "haves" over the "have-nots". Keep it as it is, and it will always be as lopsided as it is. Some would argue, quite rightly, that this is perfectly fair. The fastest should be the fastest, they earned it. You'd have difficulty arguing it makes the sport entertaining though, when competition is confined to 1 driver per team, and 2-3 teams on any given weekend.

Disparaging Americanization of the sport is fine, but you should question whether it would be more, or less, effective than the current system of administration, whereby teams at the back are simply bankruptcies waiting to happen. American teams in American sports are viable businesses. When someone sells up, there are queues of investors looking to get in the door. Like it or not, F1 should be making decisions that precipitate similar circumstances for their participants.

Lastly, I'm not suggesting enforcing "draft" rules in a literal sense. I'm simply advocating for considering some rules that operate in a similar manner, that make sense relative to the domain of F1.

ScottB
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Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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In a sport where, outside of the rare Hamilton / Schumi / Senna grade talent, it isn’t actually the ‘players’ that matter, in terms of creating periods of dominance, so having a draft system likely wouldn’t do much.

It’s the legions of engineers, aerodynamists and the like. They aren’t just coming out of a few university’s straight after graduation, how on earth would you even attempt to rank which was better? Also, you’d be competing with open industry / other sport series; would you agree to being drafted to Sauber, moving your life to Switzerland against your will, but BAe want to hire you to work on fighter jets just down the road...

Secondly, if you wanted to draft drivers, who is paying for their junior careers? You’d remove any incentive for funding junior programmes, and, besides, as it stands, the weaker teams tend to benefit, getting the big teams talented kids for a bit prior to them stepping up.

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NathanOlder
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Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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drafting is a terrible idea ,

as someone said drafting has a better chance in ball sports as there are far more 'playing' staff. In F1 you have just the drivers, and even if you put an amazing driver in a crap car , it produces crap results (Alonso)
So you need more, so lets say all designers are drafted, this is the bit I hate, as you could have little Italian Johnny who grew up a mile from Maranello, dreamed of designing red F1 cars in his home town, then gets drafted to Williams and has to move country and end up falling out of the sport as he hates every minute of it !?

How can that possibly work ?

Maybe I'm missing the whole drafting idea ?
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zac510
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Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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All the sports that have drafts and salary caps generally have no other serious league competition. An NFL player that quits basically cannot play anywhere else so they are beholden to accept the league's terms of salary caps and drafts.
This is why there really can't be a salary cap in, for example, the English Premier League. Players would just run off to Italy or Spain for a big salary. (Unless UEFA/FIFA introduce a salary cap for all leagues globally).

Gaz.
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Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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Fulcrum wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 07:31
Is it sport, is it entertainment, is it both? Which comes first?

Shoot me down all you like, but F1 plays the "game" in a manner equivalent to Manchester United playing at home every game, with the wind behind their backs, with the opposition having to run uphill every half; not discounting the fact they already have the best personnel, best facilities, biggest stadiums, and biggest fan bases. All of their competitive advantages do not need to be slanted any further by making the opposition play balanced on 1 leg.

At every level of the sport, there is positive reinforcement for the "haves" over the "have-nots". Keep it as it is, and it will always be as lopsided as it is. Some would argue, quite rightly, that this is perfectly fair. The fastest should be the fastest, they earned it. You'd have difficulty arguing it makes the sport entertaining though, when competition is confined to 1 driver per team, and 2-3 teams on any given weekend.

Disparaging Americanization of the sport is fine, but you should question whether it would be more, or less, effective than the current system of administration, whereby teams at the back are simply bankruptcies waiting to happen. American teams in American sports are viable businesses. When someone sells up, there are queues of investors looking to get in the door. Like it or not, F1 should be making decisions that precipitate similar circumstances for their participants.

Lastly, I'm not suggesting enforcing "draft" rules in a literal sense. I'm simply advocating for considering some rules that operate in a similar manner, that make sense relative to the domain of F1.
F1 has always been like this, even the second ever year had teams running out of money and had to run to F2 rules to make up the grid.

The average lifespan of a team is 3 seasons. If a team makes it to four seasons then they are in credit with the sporting Gods.

Motorsport has always been expensive, there's two well known sayings attributed to motorsport- to make a small fortune in motorsport, start with a large one. Also, speed costs money, how fast do you want to go? A third which is usually attributed to second hand cars but equally applicable is "fast, reliable, cheap- pick any two".

This isn't just exclusive to F1, the same names dominate their respective sports- Audi & Porsche in sportscars, Rossi and Doohan before him in MotoGP/500s, Penske/Haas/Ganassi in Indycars. 20 years ago Fogarty on a Ducati was unstoppable in World Superbikes.

25 years ago Williams dominated F1, having won the WCC in 1986, 1987, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 1997. In the years they didn't win they were either second or third, with 1988 being the outlier in 7th. From 1979 to 2004 it's quicker to list the years they were not in the top 4 with just four instances.

Imagine if this topic was written in 2005 with people moaning that Williams, Mclaren and Ferrari are winning everything for the last 25 years and something should be done? Really what has changed other than its now Mercedes, Ferrari and RedBull winning?
Forza Jules

Just_a_fan
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Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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Fulcrum wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 07:31
American teams in American sports are viable businesses. .
American "sport" is purely business, that's perhaps the real difference.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.

zac510
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Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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Gaz. wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 12:06
Imagine if this topic was written in 2005 with people moaning that Williams, Mclaren and Ferrari are winning everything for the last 25 years and something should be done? Really what has changed other than its now Mercedes, Ferrari and RedBull winning?
This forum is old enough - that thread probably exists!

Fulcrum
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Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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Just_a_fan wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 15:34
Fulcrum wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 07:31
American teams in American sports are viable businesses. .
American "sport" is purely business, that's perhaps the real difference.
Sport is business. It's professional entertainment in the medium of whatever set of rules defines the sport. That's hardly a pejorative term, it's just a fact.

Show me a professional sport that is not entertaining, and I'll show you a sport that isn't professional.

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TAG
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Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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Fulcrum wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 15:58
Show me a professional sport that is not entertaining, and I'll show you a sport that isn't professional.
Golf.
माकडाच्या हाती कोलीत

Fulcrum
Fulcrum
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Joined: 25 Aug 2014, 18:05

Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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TAG wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 16:11
Fulcrum wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 15:58
Show me a professional sport that is not entertaining, and I'll show you a sport that isn't professional.
Golf.
Millions would suggest otherwise.

marmer
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Joined: 21 Apr 2017, 06:48

Re: Merc, Lewis, and a plea for regulation sanity

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TAG wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 16:11
Fulcrum wrote:
22 Oct 2018, 15:58
Show me a professional sport that is not entertaining, and I'll show you a sport that isn't professional.
Golf.
waste of a perfectly good walk