FIA bans innovative damper system

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dumrick
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DaveKillens wrote:I guess that under this new interpretation, ballast has to be considered illegal.
No, because it's firmly attached to the sprung mass, in race conditions... engine pistons, on the other hand, should be outlawed imediatelly!!!! :twisted:

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flynfrog
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dumrick wrote:
DaveKillens wrote:I guess that under this new interpretation, ballast has to be considered illegal.
No, because it's firmly attached to the sprung mass, in race conditions... engine pistons, on the other hand, should be outlawed imediatelly!!!! :twisted:
but they fall under aero not being there primary purpose (the same way they got the sucker car in) not saying this is the dampers main puropse

we disscused along time ago the damper was illegal because it was moving ballast

manchild
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Well, aero isn't primary purpose of mass damper too. If we continue to consider FIA's latest prank for real that means we've taken the bait.

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flynfrog
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manchild wrote:Well, aero isn't primary purpose of mass damper too. If we continue to consider FIA's latest prank for real that means we've taken the bait.
i agree i was mearly stated why the pistons and engine parts are not part of areo

i can see the reasoning of the mass damper though but i belive it falls more under movable ballast

Frenchblock
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FIA seems like a snake bitting himself!

damper are legals for one year, and brawn lobby on Whitting his best friend is woking down to stupidity, ferrari can't win without FIA help, the legal became illegal and now legal till appeal goes on, what that mean all this mockery of sport?

the timming is quite suspicious, who need to down renault just before the last summer test days and 3 GP through more than 1 mouth without tests?

who need this? why not FIA did it in china or imola or whatever else in season?

this mafia must die now, whiting and mosley are pr1ck over sport body!

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flynfrog
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Frenchblock wrote:FIA seems like a snake bitting himself!

damper are legals for one year, and brawn lobby on Whitting his best friend is woking down to stupidity, ferrari can't win without FIA help, the legal became illegal and now legal till appeal goes on, what that mean all this mockery of sport?

the timming is quite suspicious, who need to down renault just before the last summer test days and 3 GP through more than 1 mouth without tests?

who need this? why not FIA did it in china or imola or whatever else in season?

this mafia must die now, whiting and mosley are pr1ck over sport body!
i think its time to stop taking drugs


I do question the timming a bit, but i dont think the damper did that much
and also renault hadnt won a race in a while before the damper was banned.

manchild
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flynfrog wrote:I do question the timming a bit, but i dont think the damper did that much and also renault hadnt won a race in a while before the damper was banned.
a while = only USA GP and French GP

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flynfrog
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manchild wrote:
flynfrog wrote:I do question the timming a bit, but i dont think the damper did that much and also renault hadnt won a race in a while before the damper was banned.
a while = only USA GP and French GP
thats like ages :P

they seem to get getting worse or everyone else is getting better

Frenchblock
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flynfrog wrote:
manchild wrote:
flynfrog wrote:I do question the timming a bit, but i dont think the damper did that much and also renault hadnt won a race in a while before the damper was banned.
a while = only USA GP and French GP
thats like ages :P

they seem to get getting worse or everyone else is getting better
stop drugs yourself mate,

secondly, renault is leading the championship, and sunset races are over, so maybe the red will return to their real place, at alonso bay!

why the FIA ferrari whiting is cheating F1 rules? maybe soon he will rule engine as aero moving part "illegal"!

ferrari need fia to win, poor team!

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Ciro Pabón
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Let me put it this way: what would you say of a rules change in the middle of the Football World Cup that have immediate effect on the result of the championship and that clearly restores the powers that be? The moderates would judge harshly the ineptitude of FIFA, as a minimum, and the radicals would ask for the International Board heads. You could say that any normal person is sick and tired of all that rule tweaking that has rained persistently on the F1 landscape for the first six somber and cloudy years of this century.

There is a division of judgment on the results of these rules changes: some believe their effects are obnoxious while the rest believe they are catastrophic. Look at the transformed pit wall these days and you will see few engineering firms. The “fundamentalists” will argue that we have been adopted by the car industry and this has made the FIA a very powerful entity.

Somehow, it has: definitely, the omniscient FIA can take any flak it wishes. Not being a rule change, but a decision, the "Renault damper affair" (to which it could be added the "Michelin squeeze-out") is the most blatant move or the most stupid (with all its six letters). It defies comprehension, giving them the benefit of doubt. But, let me ask the burning question: if they are so innocent, on the verge of imbecility, and they find so hard to predict the outcomes of the technical decisions, how come they got all that money racing cars? Why, in name of all that is pure, cannot they wait until November to make radical rule readings? :)

What overwhelms me is the lack of resistance of the field, but I do not know where the bones of the F1 skeleton are any more. This overruling lacks any sign of decency towards the fans, the pilots and the constructors, a thing that seems the norm these days. The flimsiest of arguments supports it, an argument that edges on irony: why did not they declare it movable ballast, as flynfrog explains, beats me. Why they took months to look into the business is beyond normal humans to fathom.

It breaks any hardcore fan's heart to watch the awkward smile in Alonso's face while he tries to downplay the clear fact that the championship has been taken out of his hands. My twisted mind sees it as a possible punishment for his career moves, but, hey, do not believe anything I say. He still trusts in miracles in the most competitive, money-driven auto sport, if you believe the press... well, you never know. :roll:
Last edited by Ciro Pabón on 04 Aug 2006, 12:05, edited 1 time in total.
Ciro

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Lightspeed
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Why not the same criticism for the FIA banning Ferrari's flexing wings ?

Why not awaken to the fact the Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and many more teams too had to uninstall its own mass damper just like Renault did ?

janus
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ferrari need fia to win, poor team!||| poor you Frenchblock a read in autosport the mclaren ferrari red bull ect where using ir to .

that is stupid the fia ban it ...yes i agree they also ban ferrari bmw wings e dint thint ferrari need fia to will and that should not be the quesiton here que quesiton should be wy fia is puting is nose in everything frist the wings now the dampers next year the engines...f1 is becoming a boring sport because of fia. the only thing a agree in the fia rules in the path to engine "green tecnology".

turning back to the dampers the problem of renault is that the michelan tyres win more with the dampers on than the brgiestone that why the diference is biger.and i think in the last race the problem was not the dampers but the new rear suspension geometry ...problably not tested a lot....and whid the dampers off the efectt was biger....

you say poor ferrari i say poor has that beacause of fia we can see a great f1 championship.

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wazojugs
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The FIA's ban om the mass damper was partly down to fears that the feature would lead to the development of a twin chassis. Ferrari is believed to have suggested this outcomke might be possible, thereby triggering the ban. Which apparantly cost the Renault team a significant chunk of performance in the German GP ay Hockenheim.

The mass dampers are more effective the higher the proportion of their weight to that of the structure they are acting upon. However teams would be reluctant to increase the weight of the mass dampers beyond the current 9-10kg because it would raise the centre of gravity of the car. So with coventional chassis the effective limit of 10kg is acting on the front end of the car that is carrying around 250kg.

An alternative way of increasing the the weight ratio (of mass damper: the weight carried by thr wheels) would be to devise a twin chassis so the the front wheels were carrying a far lower weight than this. That way the 10kg mass damper could be acting on as little as 20kg and the remaining weight could be supported by a second chassisnot acting directly upon the wheels of the car.

However ar Hockenheim sever doubts were being expressed that such a system would be feasible under the F1 technical regulations.

The theory is that it would allow you to run the front end suspension stiffer therby putting more energy into the tyres, but with the mass damper taking away much of the the penalty of that interms of the car bouncing around and therby degrading the tyres after a few laps.

The offical complaint came not Ferrari but with Mclaren which coincidently tested a simlar system last week but failed to find a benefit. But once the complaint had been made Ferrari jumped inot the debate. The team pointed out that if you took the technology to its logical conclusion it would potentially lead to the re-birth of twin chassis cars. Quite how it would lead to that isn't clear given they the regulations are worded, but the point was more that the suggestion had been made. perhaps hastening the FIA into banning the devices.

Regardless of the FIA motivation of imposing the ban the misplaced panic over a porbably false premise or hard boiled manipulation Ferrari for sure played a part in pushing the ban along. And Ferrari has increased its advantage over Renault as a result.

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wazojugs
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The FIA's ban om the mass damper was partly down to fears that the feature would lead to the development of a twin chassis. Ferrari is believed to have suggested this outcomke might be possible, thereby triggering the ban. Which apparantly cost the Renault team a significant chunk of performance in the German GP ay Hockenheim.

The mass dampers are more effective the higher the proportion of their weight to that of the structure they are acting upon. However teams would be reluctant to increase the weight of the mass dampers beyond the current 9-10kg because it would raise the centre of gravity of the car. So with coventional chassis the effective limit of 10kg is acting on the front end of the car that is carrying around 250kg.

An alternative way of increasing the the weight ratio (of mass damper: the weight carried by thr wheels) would be to devise a twin chassis so the the front wheels were carrying a far lower weight than this. That way the 10kg mass damper could be acting on as little as 20kg and the remaining weight could be supported by a second chassisnot acting directly upon the wheels of the car.

However ar Hockenheim sever doubts were being expressed that such a system would be feasible under the F1 technical regulations.

The theory is that it would allow you to run the front end suspension stiffer therby putting more energy into the tyres, but with the mass damper taking away much of the the penalty of that interms of the car bouncing around and therby degrading the tyres after a few laps.

The offical complaint came not Ferrari but with Mclaren which coincidently tested a simlar system last week but failed to find a benefit. But once the complaint had been made Ferrari jumped inot the debate. The team pointed out that if you took the technology to its logical conclusion it would potentially lead to the re-birth of twin chassis cars. Quite how it would lead to that isn't clear given they the regulations are worded, but the point was more that the suggestion had been made. perhaps hastening the FIA into banning the devices.

Regardless of the FIA motivation of imposing the ban the misplaced panic over a porbably false premise or hard boiled manipulation Ferrari for sure played a part in pushing the ban along. And Ferrari has increased its advantage over Renault as a result.

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flynfrog
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Lightspeed wrote:Why not the same criticism for the FIA banning Ferrari's flexing wings ?

Why not awaken to the fact the Ferrari, McLaren, Williams and many more teams too had to uninstall its own mass damper just like Renault did ?
because when it benifits ferrari its bad because they are cheaters :roll: