2023 Japanese Grand Prix - Suzuka, Sep 22 - 24

[organic]

In this first race sim the impression is that there is a big difference in fuel load between #Ferrari and #RedBull , RB slower in traction and in the snake, so with accelerations on all axes = > more weight #JapaneseGP

[AR3-GP]

@dialtone, any telemetry? tempo is slow.

[AR3-GP]

Following will be impossible on this circuit. I have seen some onboards during FP1 in dirty air and it's not pretty. Qualifying will be critical.

[dialtone]

Race sims:


Really only Ferrari and RBR did race sims.

Race sim reference lap for LEC and VER:


* I know from Twitter someone said that Ferrari had less fuel but in this lap it's not clear.
* Straight line speed is quite a bit better for Ferrari, could be engine mode of course, but they were doing similar in the quali sims so engine mode isn't probably all of it.

LEC v VER

* Note lap 5 for LEC v lap 2 for VER (SAI lap is very similar to LEC)
* S1 is where the lap really is done, VER is much faster in the esses and T7 Max appears to almost be flat while LEC is definitely lifting. Max doesn't do this in the race sim, a lot of his gain in the lap goes out the window then.

I think it's not that bad overall for Ferrari, was expecting waaaaay worse.

[organic]

For me the engine modes of Ferrari and RB in the fast laps were equal. Can't see any difference

RB and Ferrari have been equal in terms of top speed at medium df tracks once Ferrari introduced this single element beamwing it runs now with second element just structural

[AR3-GP]

For me the engine modes of Ferrari and RB in the fast laps were equal. Can't see any difference

Look at the speed trace by the chicane. Sainz is in a higher mode than Leclerc and RB. You can also clearly see that the rate of change of the Sainz curve is excessive compared to the others. The slope is more vertical despite the higher corner exit speed of the dutch one.

[organic]

For me the engine modes of Ferrari and RB in the fast laps were equal. Can't see any difference

Look at the speed trace by the chicane. Sainz is in a higher mode than Leclerc and RB.

Doesn't it show Carlos compromising his minimum speed at the second apex and gets an earlier exit allowing full throttle earlier? Not sure I see anything engine mode related there but could be wrong

[AR3-GP]

For me the engine modes of Ferrari and RB in the fast laps were equal. Can't see any difference

Look at the speed trace by the chicane. Sainz is in a higher mode than Leclerc and RB.

Doesn't it show Carlos compromising his minimum speed at the second apex and gets an earlier exit allowing full throttle earlier? Not sure I see anything engine mode related there but could be wrong

In my opinion, no. This is T7. If you look at the throttle trace, Sainz lifts more but comes back. Verstappen is closer to flat through the Apex but Sainz still catches him by the end.




You can also see top speed before the chicane: Ferrari doesn't have 10km/h on RB...


and then you overlay Verstappen '22 qualifying just before the chicane. Note the difference in deployment after 130R. RB isn't using much deployment in their FP1 lap. This is consistent with the PU running since Zandvoort where they also found 5km/h on Saturday's modes.

[dialtone]

that chicane isn't engine mode man, that's just Max not pushing to the limit.

[AR3-GP]

that chicane isn't engine mode man, that's just Max not pushing to the limit.

Telemetry shows throttle 100% where Sainz reaches 305 and Verstappen only 299. ffs...Hence my point that Sainz is using higher mode than RB and Leclerc.

[dialtone]

I don't think it's super accurate, sorry . You will agree with me that if your throttle is 100% but the speed doesn't go up, you probably don't have the throttle down 100%, whatever engine mode you are in, clearly Max's engine even in this mode can go past the speed at which he approaches the chicane because he goes faster 200m earlier.

[AR3-GP]

VErstappen qualy '22 vs FP1 '23:

Are we seriously arguing RB isn't messing about with deployment here?

[AR3-GP]

I don't think it's super accurate, sorry . You will agree with me that if your throttle is 100% but the speed doesn't go up, you probably don't have the throttle down 100%, whatever engine mode you are in, clearly Max's engine even in this mode can go past the speed at which he approaches the chicane because he goes faster 200m earlier.

What are you going on about? This is what a difference in electrical deployment looks like. ERS-K is 120 kw... Driver can have 100% throttle and the speed plateaus because the deployment is reduced or stopped. A car slowing doesn't mean the driver lifted....It means the energy deployment has changed. Have you never heard of clipping? and we know the RB doesn't clip when it counts

Now you're saying the telemetry is illegitmate?

This is getting embarrassing...

[dialtone]

Lol no my man... I love you to death but that has nothing to do with ERS deployment. There are many cases in which the telemetry is a bit weird like that. It's just not that precise unfortunately, to be clear my position is simply that Max indeed has more margin in that corner than shown in practice, but not due to engine mode. That speed is nowhere near critical speed and the top end of speed is mostly sustained by the ICE not by ERS.

[AR3-GP]

Lol no my man... I love you to death but that has nothing to do with ERS deployment. There are many cases in which the telemetry is a bit weird like that. It's just not that precise unfortunately, to be clear my position is simply that Max indeed has more margin in that corner than shown in practice, but not due to engine mode. That speed is nowhere near critical speed and the top end of speed is mostly sustained by the ICE not by ERS.

You say the telemetry is "not precise" yet when the throttle % drops, the speed drops by total coincidence? I cannot take this argument seriously anymore.