Most important technical development in F1?

[WhiteBlue]

Why not put the best suggestions in a poll and see what the board thinks about it.

[andrew]

Set it up then cheif.

[WhiteBlue]

It takes a moderator to do that retrospectively. And you can only pick a limited number of votes like 10.

[marcush.]

the question is:
most important for F1 ? for motorsport? for automotive field?technology? mankind?

[xpensive]

Don't be so bleeding detailed marcush, just go by the title of the thread please, I like the isea with a general poll!

[flynfrog]

The early aero stuff was often carried out by guys who moved over from hydrodynamics work such as ship designing.

Indeed, I chatted to a chap running a wind tunnel a few years ago. He'd started in F1 with McLaren (if I remember correctly) having been working on in marine design originally.

I found the comment earlier in the thread, about F1 helping boat design, rather funny in view of this...

Of course, air is a "fluid". But I reiterate that in the Americas Cup boats, over the last few years, the builders have been borrowing from F1 techniques and design. You wont find many large container ships using slotted wings as sails.

White blue, The dreamliner is using cf for its body and wings, something that was not tried before, other than in small jets. Already there have been serious problems with strength of attachment between wings and body. Unfortunately, nobody is sure if cf has a finite life. As aircraft have to suffer the stresses of thousands of cycles, they need to be sure that aircraft will last 30+ years. The jury is still out on that one.

disagree on the jury being out on 30 years. Its very easy to simulate 30 years of cycles. Ive done it on a few aircraft now. CF doesn't degrade like AL does due to fatigue as long as you dont pass certain limits it does have an infinite life span

[andrew]

It takes a moderator to do that retrospectively. And you can only pick a limited number of votes like 10.

Set up a new thread with a link to this one.

[WhiteBlue]

White blue, The dreamliner is using cf for its body and wings, something that was not tried before, other than in small jets.

The B2 isn't a small aircraft. The maximum take of weight is more than 160 metric tons and the wing area is more than 500 square meters.

[volarchico]

The B2 isn't a small aircraft. The maximum take of weight is more than 160 metric tons and the wing area is more than 500 square meters.

And it costs more than an aircraft carrier to produce one B2 (think $billions). F1 techniques with cf have allowed the production cost using those materials to continue to decrease to a level where they are almost affordable.

[WhiteBlue]

The B2 isn't a small aircraft. The maximum take of weight is more than 160 metric tons and the wing area is more than 500 square meters.

And it costs more than an aircraft carrier to produce one B2 (think $billions). F1 techniques with cf have allowed the production cost using those materials to continue to decrease to a level where they are almost affordable.

The point was which industry pioneered the use of carbon fibre composites in the first place and developed the manufacturing technologies, simulation methods and design principles. I don't think anybody can say with some degree of honesty that F1 did more than the the aerospace industry and that aerospace at any time had a need to learn much from F1 in terms of fibre composite materials. In the context of this thread one has to say that F1 did a me too.

For the history of carbon fibre composites read:
http://www.ms.ornl.gov/PMC/carbon_fiber ... 090225.pdf

The 1964 Lockheed SR-71 had 15% of their structures made from carbon composites and 85% from titanium.


First carbon composite aircraft that flew with engines was the experimental Tacit Blue in 1979 AFAIK.



The first all carbon composite aircraft flew in Germany 1978, the SB 11 made by students and teachers of AKFlieg Universität Braunschweig.



The first F1 carbon fibre chassis of the MP4-1 was made in 1980 and raced in 1981.

[WhiteBlue]

I have tried to compile a list from all proposals that does not exceed ten items (which is the maximum we can have for the poll).

• Fully stressed rear engine by Chapman
• Radial tyres with slick profiles by Michelin
• Turbo engines by Renault
• First electronic Engine Control Unit and fuel injection (ECU)
• Carbon fibre sandwich monocoque design by Barnard
• First semi auto gear box by Barnard
• Ground effect car by Chapman (for all aerodynamic floors and diffusors)
• Full size front and rear wings
• FT3/5 safety fuel tanks integral to safety cell
• Driver crash safety structures with front, rear, side and top impact and penetration protection

Would that be the ultimate top ten list?

I would set this up so that each voter would have three or five votes to spread over the ten proposals.

[xpensive]

Looks fine from where I sit, although I would like to have had Maurice Philippes side mounted radiators on the Lotus 72 there, when this made such a difference in the visual appearence of the F1 car forever?

But that's just me.

[WhiteBlue]

From a practical point of view one should always say which other item should be deleted.

[xpensive]

In that case driver protection stuff, which doesn't really belong to my mind, enough with the fuel cell I think.

Another thing is that the slick tyres should perhaps begin with that, followed by radials like;

"Slick tyres and the following introduction of radials by Michelin"?

[WhiteBlue]

• Fully stressed rear engine by Chapman
• Slick tyres and radial carcass technology by Michelin
• Turbo engines by Renault
• First electronic Engine Control Unit and fuel injection (ECU)
• Carbon fibre sandwich monocoque design by Barnard
• First semi auto gear box by Barnard
• Ground effect car by Chapman (for all aerodynamic floors and diffusors)
• Full size front and rear wings
• First side mounted radiators by Maurice Philippe
• Driver safety cell with protected FT3/5 fuel tank, front, rear, side and top impact and penetration protection

I would set this up so that each voter would have three or five votes to spread over the ten proposals.