2021 Qatar Grand Prix - Losail, Nov 19-21

[Oehrly]

A car stopped off track is almost always double waved yellows, and sometimes red. In this case pulled over near the pit wall, the double yellows are most definitely warranted.

To be clear, if race control's intention was to leave this part of the track green under those circumstances, there is something VERY wrong with race control...

definitely. If anyone made a mistake there, it's race control, not the marshal

Of course the marshalls have to decide this to act quickly. And they acted as they should have. But it very much looks like this is not what race control intended.

An no one should get away without a penalty here. Situations like this are just too dangerous.

[Shrieker]

Marshals saw a car crawling to a halt, and waved yellows, end of story. If they stopped for a while, that means they didn't do their job properly.

Sadly for Max, there were clear double waved yellows as he was going past, and he didn't lift off - not one bit.

[west52keep64]

A car stopped off track is almost always double waved yellows, and sometimes red. In this case pulled over near the pit wall, the double yellows are most definitely warranted.

To be clear, if race control's intention was to leave this part of the track green under those circumstances, there is something VERY wrong with race control...

definitely. If anyone made a mistake there, it's race control, not the marshal

Of course the marshalls have to decide this to act quickly. And they acted as they should have. But it very much looks like this is not what race control intended.

An no one should get away without a penalty here. Situations like this are just too dangerous.

Nope, they can't intend anything. If a marsal spots a hazard and waves a flag, the drivers have to react accordingly.

[SiLo]

Does that include Gio's gearbox penalty (i.e. penalties for part replacement are different to driver infringements)?

It's seperate ... it's all a bit of a confusing mess as well.

Check sporting regs 36.3 on page 39

c) Once the grid has been established in accordance with a) and b) above, grid position penalties will be applied to the drivers in question in the order the offences were committed. If, following the qualifying practice session, more than one driver incurs a penalty under Article 23.2b) or Article 23.4a) preference will be given to the driver whose Competitor first informed the Technical Delegate that a power unit or gearbox change will be carried out.
d) Any driver required to start the race from the back of the grid after incurring a penalty
under Article 23.23b) will be arranged on the grid behind any driver penalised under c)
above.
If more than one driver is required to start the race from the back of the grid they will be
arranged in qualifying order

23.2b) is the number of places they have to drop for PU elements
23.4a) is gearboxes

So it'd be Vestappen (+5) 7th, Bottas (+3) 6th, Sainz (+3) 10th.

No. Bottas would drop to 6th, then Sainz would drop to 10th, then Verstappen would drop to 7th, promoting Bottas to 5th.

[Oehrly]

definitely. If anyone made a mistake there, it's race control, not the marshal

Of course the marshalls have to decide this to act quickly. And they acted as they should have. But it very much looks like this is not what race control intended.

An no one should get away without a penalty here. Situations like this are just too dangerous.

Nope, they can't intend anything. If a marsal spots a hazard and waves a flag, the drivers have to react accordingly.

Sorry, I think I didn't express myself clear enough. The marshalls did absolutely the right thing. I just think that race control tried to "overrule" them and called track clear? Why else whould the have stopped to wave the flags and then started again?

[west52keep64]

Sorry, I think I didn't express myself clear enough. The marshalls did absolutely the right thing. I just think that race control tried to "overrule" them and called track clear? Why else whould the have stopped to wave the flags and then started again?

They only called "track clear" in sector 20, which appears to be the location of the light panel in the final corner. You kind of have to ignore the pretty graphics that appear on the TV feed, it's what's happening on track that matters.

[RZS10]

The yellows basically followed Gasly as he went around the track and as long as he was moving it was single yellow, the moment he stopped they switched to doubles ... i think

[siskue2005]

The yellows basically followed Gasly as he went around the track and as long as he was moving it was single yellow, the moment he stopped they switched to doubles ... i think

Good find, so when he cleared sector 20 then it was cleared aswell

[dfegan358]

Slam dunk penalty for verstappen

[ringo]

I don't see how the summonsed drivers can hope to get away without a penalty. Ignoring yellow flags is one of the cardinal sins of circuit racing. It doesn't really matter if the flag is in error - the driver can not know that in the moment and so must always assume the flag is correct and comply accordingly. It's no different to Mexico 2019 - waved yellows visible in plenty of time. 3 place grid penalty that time so presumably the same will happen here for Max, Bottas and Sainz.

All three cannot get equal punishment. Mercedes and Ferrari will argue that judgement. It must be a 5 place drop for Max logically. 3 for the other 2. And it's would not make sense to give Bottas and Sainz 1 place drops then give Max 3. He has to get a 5 place drop, but you never know these days with the FIA. The let him get away so many times this year. He escaped a red flag overtake in Zandvoort, so can escape yellows and say Hi!

[ringo]

Marshals saw a car crawling to a halt, and waved yellows, end of story. If they stopped for a while, that means they didn't do their job properly.

Sadly for Max, there were clear double waved yellows as he was going past, and he didn't lift off - not one bit.

I don't think the Marshalls stopped or alternated as often as those lights indicated. Someone in race control wanted them to stop of course. There was no way that track could have been clear with Gasly still in his car. Another accident could happen like his and put him in danger in being stationary. It was reckless of race control.

[codetower]

One thing I feel the FIA need to get better at is the speed in which they make decisions on things like this. This one seems a little more black-and-white than the last one. Imagine if RB were thinking of taking a new engine for VER while he’s P2 but now they can’t make that call yet. Same with Mercedes, if Verstappen starts seventh, maybe they decide to take a Newington for Hamilton. But that decision would have to wait as well and there’s no way either could swap engines one or two hours before the race.

[KeiKo403]

Well the swap would be under parc ferme (as of Q1 starting) so the drivers would need to start from the pit lane regardless

[foxmulder_ms]

A car stopped off track is almost always double waved yellows, and sometimes red. In this case pulled over near the pit wall, the double yellows are most definitely warranted.

To be clear, if race control's intention was to leave this part of the track green under those circumstances, there is something VERY wrong with race control...

Race control signalled clear track.

This is what Vettel was saying previously....they changed to clear so fast! maybe for Max!

Vettel “It’s a bit of a shame because I had the yellow flag in the last sector and then the yellow flag cleared, I guess, because Max was coming.”
https://www.racefans.net/2021/11/20/vet ... as-coming/

I applaud VETTEL telling it as is. !

[Alvareth]

Marshals saw a car crawling to a halt, and waved yellows, end of story. If they stopped for a while, that means they didn't do their job properly.

Sadly for Max, there were clear double waved yellows as he was going past, and he didn't lift off - not one bit.

I don't think the Marshalls stopped or alternated as often as those lights indicated. Someone in race control wanted them to stop of course. There was no way that track could have been clear with Gasly still in his car. Another accident could happen like his and put him in danger in being stationary. It was reckless of race control.

As I said before, it’s a mess… they should not have given the clear track message. Max should have reduced speed as soon as he noticed the different signals: Green signals on the right, a standing car, double yellow on the left and slow moving car message on his steering wheel…