[ 2020 ] AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

[Jolle]

This criticism on Bottas, I actually think he's not doing a bad job. he's very close to Hamilton in qualifying and on a track as Spain, with overtaking that difficult and the long run to turn one, this is what happens.

Mercedes themselves don't just look at the race weekends and decide who should be in the second car, they have proper data of all their drivers. They wouldn't put Bottas in the car if Russell, Ocon or Vandoorne had better data. Or even other available drivers on the grid. Who? Vettel? Too many unforced errors, Hulkenberg? nice guy, quick, but not that special. Alonso? Even if Mercedes would forgive him for 2007, history and his teams doesn't work in his favor. Kimi? etc etc etc.

At the moment there are two drivers who stand out, Hamilton and Verstappen with Leclec closing in. Then there is quite a gap to the next tier of drivers, with Bottas, Ricciardo, Norris, Vettel and Sainz. So far, Bottas is close to Hamilton in raw speed, doesn't drive into him, doesn't have to many unforced errors, works well with Hamilton and the team.

At the moment, Hamilton and Verstappen are just on another level.

[Schuttelberg]

In the Dutch press Verstappen also conceded with the words: world championship not realistic.

It’s a bit of fresh air this realism instead of years of “well everything is possible” marketing BS.

Verstappen has always been straight forward. Also, Verstappen was never in this fight. This is a Mercedes championship and the only way Max would have had a one in hundred chance was if a Rosberg level driver or better was in the second car.

I think it's purely Max's flawless season that has him second in the standings with a hefty doze of worthlessness that fills the second Mercedes seat.

A 'Rosberg level or better driver' in the second car is just as likely to take point out of Max that to add them.
On the occasion this driver would come between max and a merc driver it would take from the mercs, but having another car (the same car same strengths good at the same venue) would pressurise max and his car mechanically and tyres, and even (if allowed) finish infront of him.

So even if controlled, I dont know that it would be that good an idea.

Hamilton is a DNF+ ahead in the standings already and has already had a bad race (he doesn't have many). Max, RBR, the grid, the paddock and the F1 fans of all drivers and sport would welcome a more worthy driver in the second seat. It has come to the point that 2 DNF's (which is very unreliable in modern F1) would mean nothing to Hamilton as he would be on par again if he wins 2 races from the next 4 which is highly likely.

I had said this on this board earlier and I will say it again. Bottas has won 8 races of about 70 he's raced for Mercedes. That's one in 8.5 in the best car or at least with the equal best car. For the people who lust about statistics, Rosberg's numbers themselves look great but the hybrid era has now had 7 seasons and that's a 120+ races of which Mercedes must have won 100?
Yes, he has won 8 races but he has had the chance to win 70.

One thing I will say- There has been an incredible amount of mourning about Mercedes and a lot of rubbish written about them but the fact simply is that they have been the best team in F1 in the last decade and have made an absolute mockery of the Ferrari legacy. With all the resources Ferrari have, the history, the money, the drivers, Mercedes has shown how you can achieve even more success by being more optimised and not clinging on to old traditions.

[Jolle]

Verstappen has always been straight forward. Also, Verstappen was never in this fight. This is a Mercedes championship and the only way Max would have had a one in hundred chance was if a Rosberg level driver or better was in the second car.

I think it's purely Max's flawless season that has him second in the standings with a hefty doze of worthlessness that fills the second Mercedes seat.

A 'Rosberg level or better driver' in the second car is just as likely to take point out of Max that to add them.
On the occasion this driver would come between max and a merc driver it would take from the mercs, but having another car (the same car same strengths good at the same venue) would pressurise max and his car mechanically and tyres, and even (if allowed) finish infront of him.

So even if controlled, I dont know that it would be that good an idea.

I am sorry, but if people really think the Bulls have a driver issue with second seat. I invite them to look at Mercedes. The only big team not to have a "hot" prospect right now is Mercedes. And that's problematic. Ocon, Lando, Max, Leclerc, Russel, etc. All very fine prospects, all away from the second seat at Mercedes. I assume they will continue to compete post 2021. The lack of vision scares me.

You do know that Russell is under contract by Mercedes? He has a three year contract with Williams and that expires after 2021, with Bottas his contract also ending in 2021. There is a very good chance that Russell will replace Bottas for 2022.

[mafeotul]

A 'Rosberg level or better driver' in the second car is just as likely to take point out of Max that to add them.
On the occasion this driver would come between max and a merc driver it would take from the mercs, but having another car (the same car same strengths good at the same venue) would pressurise max and his car mechanically and tyres, and even (if allowed) finish infront of him.

So even if controlled, I dont know that it would be that good an idea.

I am sorry, but if people really think the Bulls have a driver issue with second seat. I invite them to look at Mercedes. The only big team not to have a "hot" prospect right now is Mercedes. And that's problematic. Ocon, Lando, Max, Leclerc, Russel, etc. All very fine prospects, all away from the second seat at Mercedes. I assume they will continue to compete post 2021. The lack of vision scares me.

You do know that Russell is under contract by Mercedes? He has a three year contract with Williams and that expires after 2021, with Bottas his contract also ending in 2021. There is a very good chance that Russell will replace Bottas for 2022.

And we expect Russel to do what? No experience in wheel to wheel racing, no experience in a challenger, not a single experienced team-mate ( Expect Kubica - who really should have not been in F1 last year). he is going to get Albonned/ Gaslyed. Simple as, he needs one season at least along strong drivers. Does anyone remember Max's first couple of seasons? Imagine that recklessness in the best car on the grid, or a proper challenger? Russel will not achieve anything spectacular unless properly introduced into such a behemoth of a team such as Mercedes.

[Mchamilton]

I am sorry, but if people really think the Bulls have a driver issue with second seat. I invite them to look at Mercedes. The only big team not to have a "hot" prospect right now is Mercedes. And that's problematic. Ocon, Lando, Max, Leclerc, Russel, etc. All very fine prospects, all away from the second seat at Mercedes. I assume they will continue to compete post 2021. The lack of vision scares me.

You do know that Russell is under contract by Mercedes? He has a three year contract with Williams and that expires after 2021, with Bottas his contract also ending in 2021. There is a very good chance that Russell will replace Bottas for 2022.

And we expect Russel to do what? No experience in wheel to wheel racing, no experience in a challenger, not a single experienced team-mate ( Expect Kubica - who really should have not been in F1 last year). he is going to get Albonned/ Gaslyed. Simple as, he needs one season at least along strong drivers. Does anyone remember Max's first couple of seasons? Imagine that recklessness in the best car on the grid, or a proper challenger? Russel will not achieve anything spectacular unless properly introduced into such a behemoth of a team such as Mercedes.

what makes you think Russell would struggle so badly? hes shown his class on numerous occasions. his lower formula results against various drivers on the f1 grid shows his ability to best them comfortably. he has shown extreme speed whenever he's testing the mercedes cars. he has a very calm and mature head on him. i would personally bet he would do no worse then Bottas currently is, in his first season against Lewis.

[Jolle]

I am sorry, but if people really think the Bulls have a driver issue with second seat. I invite them to look at Mercedes. The only big team not to have a "hot" prospect right now is Mercedes. And that's problematic. Ocon, Lando, Max, Leclerc, Russel, etc. All very fine prospects, all away from the second seat at Mercedes. I assume they will continue to compete post 2021. The lack of vision scares me.

You do know that Russell is under contract by Mercedes? He has a three year contract with Williams and that expires after 2021, with Bottas his contract also ending in 2021. There is a very good chance that Russell will replace Bottas for 2022.

And we expect Russel to do what? No experience in wheel to wheel racing, no experience in a challenger, not a single experienced team-mate ( Expect Kubica - who really should have not been in F1 last year). he is going to get Albonned/ Gaslyed. Simple as, he needs one season at least along strong drivers. Does anyone remember Max's first couple of seasons? Imagine that recklessness in the best car on the grid, or a proper challenger? Russel will not achieve anything spectacular unless properly introduced into such a behemoth of a team such as Mercedes.

You forget about a few years and titles in other very competitive series, already being part of the Mercedes team (tests, sim work, etc etc) and that the Williams, although at the back, is just a few % slower then the lead car?

Don't forget, Verstappen had one season of car racing before coming into F1, Russell already had five and four titels.

[mafeotul]

You do know that Russell is under contract by Mercedes? He has a three year contract with Williams and that expires after 2021, with Bottas his contract also ending in 2021. There is a very good chance that Russell will replace Bottas for 2022.

And we expect Russel to do what? No experience in wheel to wheel racing, no experience in a challenger, not a single experienced team-mate ( Expect Kubica - who really should have not been in F1 last year). he is going to get Albonned/ Gaslyed. Simple as, he needs one season at least along strong drivers. Does anyone remember Max's first couple of seasons? Imagine that recklessness in the best car on the grid, or a proper challenger? Russel will not achieve anything spectacular unless properly introduced into such a behemoth of a team such as Mercedes.

what makes you think Russell would struggle so badly? hes shown his class on numerous occasions. his lower formula results against various drivers on the f1 grid shows his ability to best them comfortably. he has shown extreme speed whenever he's testing the mercedes cars. he has a very calm and mature head on him. i would personally bet he would do no worse then Bottas currently is, in his first season against Lewis.

I'm not saying he'll fight for 7th here. I am saying he will not push the car where it needs. If 2022 brings the field closer than 2017/2018 was, then Mercedes will have a problem with putting a "young-ling" inside their challenger. i'm not sure how much you remember but one mistake used to cost terribly during those seasons. What Russel needs, is experience. He needs to know how to eek every millisecond of that car, knowing you have another 5-6 drivers that can take pole if you place on foot wrong. You don't get that while beings 3 laps down, slowing for blue flags. Leclerc, Lando, Max, these have already claimed podiums, fought battles on track, won and lost. Russel is not there at the minute. And no matter how much you want, and i want him to be there, it takes time, and perfect balance within the team.

[mafeotul]

You do know that Russell is under contract by Mercedes? He has a three year contract with Williams and that expires after 2021, with Bottas his contract also ending in 2021. There is a very good chance that Russell will replace Bottas for 2022.

And we expect Russel to do what? No experience in wheel to wheel racing, no experience in a challenger, not a single experienced team-mate ( Expect Kubica - who really should have not been in F1 last year). he is going to get Albonned/ Gaslyed. Simple as, he needs one season at least along strong drivers. Does anyone remember Max's first couple of seasons? Imagine that recklessness in the best car on the grid, or a proper challenger? Russel will not achieve anything spectacular unless properly introduced into such a behemoth of a team such as Mercedes.

You forget about a few years and titles in other very competitive series, already being part of the Mercedes team (tests, sim work, etc etc) and that the Williams, although at the back, is just a few % slower then the lead car?

Don't forget, Verstappen had one season of car racing before coming into F1, Russell already had five and four titels.

I honestly would expect the same gap from Ham to Rus that we are seeing within the RedBull team with gasly first, and now with Albon.

[Jolle]

And we expect Russel to do what? No experience in wheel to wheel racing, no experience in a challenger, not a single experienced team-mate ( Expect Kubica - who really should have not been in F1 last year). he is going to get Albonned/ Gaslyed. Simple as, he needs one season at least along strong drivers. Does anyone remember Max's first couple of seasons? Imagine that recklessness in the best car on the grid, or a proper challenger? Russel will not achieve anything spectacular unless properly introduced into such a behemoth of a team such as Mercedes.

You forget about a few years and titles in other very competitive series, already being part of the Mercedes team (tests, sim work, etc etc) and that the Williams, although at the back, is just a few % slower then the lead car?

Don't forget, Verstappen had one season of car racing before coming into F1, Russell already had five and four titels.

I honestly would expect the same gap from Ham to Rus that we are seeing within the RedBull team with gasly first, and now with Albon.

I would even go so far that Mercedes is the only team at the moment who doesn’t have a young driver problem. Ferrari had to source outside their program for Sainz, while they have Gio in F1, RedBull tried all their youngsters and they are no where near the lead car and don’t have anyone at the moment to slot into AT while Mercedes, since their return in F1 always used drivers who started out as a Mercedes junior.

[basti313]

You forget about a few years and titles in other very competitive series, already being part of the Mercedes team (tests, sim work, etc etc) and that the Williams, although at the back, is just a few % slower then the lead car?

Don't forget, Verstappen had one season of car racing before coming into F1, Russell already had five and four titels.

I honestly would expect the same gap from Ham to Rus that we are seeing within the RedBull team with gasly first, and now with Albon.

I would even go so far that Mercedes is the only team at the moment who doesn’t have a young driver problem. Ferrari had to source outside their program for Sainz, while they have Gio in F1, RedBull tried all their youngsters and they are no where near the lead car and don’t have anyone at the moment to slot into AT while Mercedes, since their return in F1 always used drivers who started out as a Mercedes junior.

Absolutely, still there is only Rus....and the rest needs to be shared with FormulaE.

Gio does not look good against old Rai, who was send down.Same for the Bulls...even Renault needs to bring in the old bloke.
F2 does not look like anyone is pressing...currently leading is Ilott, who was dumped by the Bulls and has a spare seat in the Ferrari program. Schwarzman and Schumacher are not yet there. So three Ferrari guys on top, but none of them is F1 promotable.

[mafeotul]

I honestly would expect the same gap from Ham to Rus that we are seeing within the RedBull team with gasly first, and now with Albon.

I would even go so far that Mercedes is the only team at the moment who doesn’t have a young driver problem. Ferrari had to source outside their program for Sainz, while they have Gio in F1, RedBull tried all their youngsters and they are no where near the lead car and don’t have anyone at the moment to slot into AT while Mercedes, since their return in F1 always used drivers who started out as a Mercedes junior.

Absolutely, still there is only Rus....and the rest needs to be shared with FormulaE.

Gio does not look good against old Rai, who was send down.Same for the Bulls...even Renault needs to bring in the old bloke.
F2 does not look like anyone is pressing...currently leading is Ilott, who was dumped by the Bulls and has a spare seat in the Ferrari program. Schwarzman and Schumacher are not yet there. So three Ferrari guys on top, but none of them is F1 promotable.

Imagine Lando in the Merc before Russel. The entire Fandom would probably implode.

[basti313]

I would even go so far that Mercedes is the only team at the moment who doesn’t have a young driver problem. Ferrari had to source outside their program for Sainz, while they have Gio in F1, RedBull tried all their youngsters and they are no where near the lead car and don’t have anyone at the moment to slot into AT while Mercedes, since their return in F1 always used drivers who started out as a Mercedes junior.

Absolutely, still there is only Rus....and the rest needs to be shared with FormulaE.

Gio does not look good against old Rai, who was send down.Same for the Bulls...even Renault needs to bring in the old bloke.
F2 does not look like anyone is pressing...currently leading is Ilott, who was dumped by the Bulls and has a spare seat in the Ferrari program. Schwarzman and Schumacher are not yet there. So three Ferrari guys on top, but none of them is F1 promotable.

Imagine Lando in the Merc before Russel. The entire Fandom would probably implode.

Yes...sure...but only until he gets demolished.
I like him and I think teaming him up like this is much too early. He currently has the speed of Sainz, who is a propper Nr.2. So he would need to up his game to be faster than Bot.

[Gerhardsa]

Yes...sure...but only until he gets demolished.
I like him and I think teaming him up like this is much too early. He currently has the speed of Sainz, who is a propper Nr.2. So he would need to up his game to be faster than Bot.

I think Lando will be very close to Bottas over a season but that's just my opinion. Anyhow, if that Mclaren moves forward and after upgrading to the "big boy" engine, he will have a huge challenge in front of him... Ricciardo

[El Scorchio]

I would even go so far that Mercedes is the only team at the moment who doesn’t have a young driver problem. Ferrari had to source outside their program for Sainz, while they have Gio in F1, RedBull tried all their youngsters and they are no where near the lead car and don’t have anyone at the moment to slot into AT while Mercedes, since their return in F1 always used drivers who started out as a Mercedes junior.

Absolutely, still there is only Rus....and the rest needs to be shared with FormulaE.

Gio does not look good against old Rai, who was send down.Same for the Bulls...even Renault needs to bring in the old bloke.
F2 does not look like anyone is pressing...currently leading is Ilott, who was dumped by the Bulls and has a spare seat in the Ferrari program. Schwarzman and Schumacher are not yet there. So three Ferrari guys on top, but none of them is F1 promotable.

Imagine Lando in the Merc before Russel. The entire Fandom would probably implode.

Why?

[Mchamilton]

I would even go so far that Mercedes is the only team at the moment who doesn’t have a young driver problem. Ferrari had to source outside their program for Sainz, while they have Gio in F1, RedBull tried all their youngsters and they are no where near the lead car and don’t have anyone at the moment to slot into AT while Mercedes, since their return in F1 always used drivers who started out as a Mercedes junior.

Absolutely, still there is only Rus....and the rest needs to be shared with FormulaE.

Gio does not look good against old Rai, who was send down.Same for the Bulls...even Renault needs to bring in the old bloke.
F2 does not look like anyone is pressing...currently leading is Ilott, who was dumped by the Bulls and has a spare seat in the Ferrari program. Schwarzman and Schumacher are not yet there. So three Ferrari guys on top, but none of them is F1 promotable.

Imagine Lando in the Merc before Russel. The entire Fandom would probably implode.

not sure what set of circumstances you think could arise that would allow that to ever happen if im honest. Russell smoked Lando in F2 in the end, and there is no direct comparison in f1 to compare the 2 further than that so..