Mercedes W12

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
holeindalip
holeindalip
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Joined: 11 Jun 2013, 01:58
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: Mercedes W12

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zibby43 wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 20:42
holeindalip wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 16:13
zibby43 wrote:
27 Apr 2021, 23:38


Brabham BT19 days!

Re: the W12, I thought the above photo did a really good job demonstrating the "Z-shaped" floor, which can be read about in more detail here:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... Jb5U1.html

Thought it was a fascinating development choice, as cutting the Z into the floor's sides actually results in shedding some floor area from the car.

Excerpt:

"The cut-out itself, working in combination with the vane atop of it, could be creating a vortex of spinning air which is then sucked to the underside edges of the floor, thereby helping seal it, so retaining that negative pressure.

These vortices form virtual ‘skirts’ (so named after the physical rubber/ceramic skirts which were banned in the 1980s) keep the airflow of the main part of the floor energised. The faster that flow, the greater the downforce. The job of creating the vortices on the outer edges of floor was previously done by the floor slots which were banned for this year."
I thought the slots just helped with pushing the turbulent tire wake outwards not to create vortices? Correct me if I’m wrong??
That’s what the slots/holes at the rear of the floor were designed to do: to manage the disruption to the airflow caused by the rotating tire. That airflow otherwise tries to wreck the consistency of underfloor flow that feeds the diffuser.

Like you said, those slots allow the excess pressure to vent, rather than being injected into the free airstream.

These slots were typically angled. The excerpt above was referring to the vertical slots running parallel to the floor’s edge closer to the side pod area.
Thanks for the clarification….

zibby43
zibby43
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Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: Mercedes W12

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holeindalip wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 22:00
zibby43 wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 20:42
holeindalip wrote:
29 Apr 2021, 16:13


I thought the slots just helped with pushing the turbulent tire wake outwards not to create vortices? Correct me if I’m wrong??
That’s what the slots/holes at the rear of the floor were designed to do: to manage the disruption to the airflow caused by the rotating tire. That airflow otherwise tries to wreck the consistency of underfloor flow that feeds the diffuser.

Like you said, those slots allow the excess pressure to vent, rather than being injected into the free airstream.

These slots were typically angled. The excerpt above was referring to the vertical slots running parallel to the floor’s edge closer to the side pod area.
Thanks for the clarification….
Welcome! You were 100% right about the rear slots/holes. Excerpt wasn’t specific enough about which set of slots was being talking about.

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Morteza
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Joined: 10 Feb 2010, 18:23
Location: Bushehr, Iran

Re: Mercedes W12

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"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

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atanatizante
115
Joined: 10 Mar 2011, 15:33

Re: Mercedes W12

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via AMuS
"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
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zubster
zubster
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Joined: 28 Mar 2021, 17:28

Re: Mercedes W12

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=D> =D> =D> That is an amazing picture! Shows how much the rake truly is on a "low rake" car!

CLKGTR
CLKGTR
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Joined: 04 Dec 2015, 20:00

Re: Mercedes W12

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According to my fast paint caluculations, it is around 1.2 degrees rake.

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ScrewCaptain27
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Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 01:13
Location: Udine, Italy

Re: Mercedes W12

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zubster wrote:
30 Apr 2021, 14:51
=D> =D> =D> That is an amazing picture! Shows how much the rake truly is on a "low rake" car!
To be fair it probably has been increased from last year. I’m curious to see a comparison shot
"Stupid people do stupid things. Smart people outsmart each other, then themselves."
- Serj Tankian

Marty_Y
Marty_Y
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Joined: 31 Mar 2021, 23:37

Re: Mercedes W12

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When the car is stationary Judging the level of rake can be hard.

When it's moving with down force acting on it, it looks a lot less.

But it does look like the back is up higher than it was before imo.

mantikos
mantikos
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Joined: 02 Mar 2011, 17:35

Re: Mercedes W12

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ScrewCaptain27 wrote:
30 Apr 2021, 15:37
zubster wrote:
30 Apr 2021, 14:51
=D> =D> =D> That is an amazing picture! Shows how much the rake truly is on a "low rake" car!
To be fair it probably has been increased from last year. I’m curious to see a comparison shot
James Allison said it had been increased during last year's launch video. I don't see an increase over last year. I saw an increase last year over previous years where it was as low as 0.9 degrees.

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SiLo
138
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: Mercedes W12

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Check out how the rear wing flow is driving the exhaust gases upwards. Quite impressive!
Felipe Baby!

zibby43
zibby43
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Joined: 04 Mar 2017, 12:16

Re: Mercedes W12

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via Motorsport.com

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Bonus rake comparison:

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atanatizante
115
Joined: 10 Mar 2011, 15:33

Re: Mercedes W12

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They are still playing around with the car`s rake ...
Then just look at the front tyre wake and rear exhaust plum ...

Image

A couple of high rake car setup pictures:

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"I don`t have all the answers. Try Google!"
Jesus

mkay
mkay
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Joined: 21 May 2010, 21:30

Re: Mercedes W12

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I don’t think you can compare those pics as we don’t know relative speeds.

On another note, is it me or is the W12 front wing looking relatively simple compared to the most recent iterations at RB, AM, etc.

The RB and AM wings have ondulations on their elements whilst Merc’s elements are flat.

wesley123
wesley123
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Joined: 23 Feb 2008, 17:55

Re: Mercedes W12

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The fact that they are all from different points on the track means that the images say absolutely nada.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

cplchanb
cplchanb
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Joined: 31 Jan 2017, 19:13

Re: Mercedes W12

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wesley123 wrote:
01 May 2021, 15:35
The fact that they are all from different points on the track means that the images say absolutely nada.
Are there any pics of the w11 at the same turn? That can definititely determine the rake angle differences if any