2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

[Hammerfist]

You can disagree all you want but the fact that Max pitted so early combined to the length of Hamilton's first stint would have made it very difficult for him to beat Hamilton today.

Then where do the +41s after 71laps fit in that narrative ? Is all that part of the dra train ?
Come on .. still a very long way to go. And the fact that they weren't upfront, well that's part of that same package, isn't it ?

Do I really have to explain that to you? The main reason Verstappen was far ahead is because of where lewis started and how long it took him to pass the slower cars. The other reason is that Verstappen built a lot of his gap while he was on fresher tires. But when Ham pitted he was catching max initially all the time and catching him up fast, but he was too far down the road to make any meaningful impact. What do you think that would have meant if they had started the race closer to each other? Even at the end, when they were all on mediums Hamilton was on older mediums.

The scenario I was describing involved Hamilton not starting miles behind. The same way the Ferraris put pressure on Max, it would have been the same with Hamilton too. Max's management of the tires was bad today. No ifs and buts about it.

It's almost as if you people don't understand tire degradation and the effect it can have in a race. Even Toto said that the race pace was good even though the result and final gap doesn't show it. Please educate yourself.

[dialtone]

Well, everything we expected this year was checked in this race:

• Farcical FIA secisions (Perez's qualifying, Russel's penalty)
• Ferrari PU exploading.
• Farcical Ferrari decision. (Making Leclerc to overtake Verstappen thrice)
• Alonso screwed.

What are you talking about? Ferrari strategy was perfect today, they would have won by 20 seconds, none of the passes on Max were hard or challenging for either driver.

You mean when they forced risky battles with Verstappen, when they could have brought him out before him at multiple parts of the race?

Maybe put together a bit of a thought about it, then write it down and then we can discuss it.

[dialtone]

Yep, Ferrari doing their best to mess it up - that said, I do kinda get that they went all out to take a step in pace this year and took a chance that reliability would be a risk. They preferred a delicate fast car than a robust one that couldn’t challenge for wins, which I do get given where they were.

They do need to understand it and ensure they’re winning the races they should but that’s racing and hopefully they’ll get there and chip away in the second half of the year.

Makes no sense... they had better tire deg, they weren't faster on straights.

I think you must clearly have misunderstood what I wrote - I said no such thing.

Sorry, I understand what you meant now. Apologize.

[mzso]

By the way. Is it know if Sainz was using an older speck PU, such as Leclerc was using in Baku or spain, or were they using the same spec?

Yep, Ferrari doing their best to mess it up - that said, I do kinda get that they went all out to take a step in pace this year and took a chance that reliability would be a risk. They preferred a delicate fast car than a robust one that couldn’t challenge for wins, which I do get given where they were.

They do need to understand it and ensure they’re winning the races they should but that’s racing and hopefully they’ll get there and chip away in the second half of the year.

I don't think that any extra risk was put on proper maintenance of throttle pedals, or decision making, the latter which is their greatest weakness.

[f1316]

Makes no sense... they had better tire deg, they weren't faster on straights.

I think you must clearly have misunderstood what I wrote - I said no such thing.

Sorry, I understand what you meant now. Apologize.

No worries!

[214270]

Without a shadow of a doubt they made a mistake by making the apex the final point to judge an overtaking decision. Should be the braking point, anyone on the outside gets hung out to dry because the decision is being made so late. Absolutely no opportunity to change trajectory on exit if you’re both racing to the apex. It doesn’t foster good racing.

They shouldn't define any such thing, turns and situations are very variable.
At this instance Russel didn't deserve a penalty because there was no possibility to take the turn tighter by the time Perez got in the way.

There most definitely should be sensible parameters or it ends up being VER tactics last year & an absolute freeforall; the same rules that governed racing before Masi f***ed it all up is all that’s required. The issue is the modification this yr. from start-of-braking zone to apex. If it’s the apex VER/SCH at Silverstone is what we’ll get. What I believe most people want is side-by-side action for multiple corners concurrently.

[f1316]

By the way. Is it know if Sainz was using an older speck PU, such as Leclerc was using in Baku or spain, or were they using the same spec?

Yep, Ferrari doing their best to mess it up - that said, I do kinda get that they went all out to take a step in pace this year and took a chance that reliability would be a risk. They preferred a delicate fast car than a robust one that couldn’t challenge for wins, which I do get given where they were.

They do need to understand it and ensure they’re winning the races they should but that’s racing and hopefully they’ll get there and chip away in the second half of the year.

I don't think that any extra risk was put on proper maintenance of throttle pedals, or decision making, the latter which is their greatest weakness.

That’s fair - I’m speaking mainly to engine fragility.

[mzso]

Maybe put together a bit of a thought about it, then write it down and then we can discuss it.

Sounds like you're talking to a mirror. Verstappen was held up quite a bit even after several laps on the tires, when they could have brought Leclerc in front of him on fresher tires. Would have been less risky.

[chrisc90]

You can disagree all you want but the fact that Max pitted so early combined to the length of Hamilton's first stint would have made it very difficult for him to beat Hamilton today.

Then where do the +41s after 71laps fit in that narrative ? Is all that part of the dra train ?
Come on .. still a very long way to go. And the fact that they weren't upfront, well that's part of that same package, isn't it ?

Do I really have to explain that to you? The main reason Verstappen was far ahead is because of where lewis started and how long it took him to pass the slower cars. The other reason is that Verstappen built a lot of his gap while he was on fresher tires. But when Ham pitted he was catching max initially all the time and catching him up fast, but he was too far down the road to make any meaningful impact. What do you think that would have meant if they had started the race closer to each other? Even at the end, when they were all on mediums Hamilton was on older mediums.

The scenario I was describing involved Hamilton not starting miles behind. The same way the Ferraris put pressure on Max, it would have been the same with Hamilton too. Max's management of the tires was bad today. No ifs and buts about it.

It's almost as if you people don't understand tire degradation and the effect it can have in a race. Even Toto said that the race pace was good even though the result and final gap doesn't show it. Please educate yourself.

The analysis dialtone did of lap times disagrees with you.

Let me remind you:




What laps were Hamilton faster again and ‘catching him up fast’?

[mendis]

All cars have stopped bouncing and porpoising. Second race we did not hear these words.

[ringo]

I did not watch the race. But Leclerc overtook Max three times in one race. Surprised Max got caught out so many times. If it were Hamilton some crashing would have taken place to stop him.
Is Max too friendly with Charles? Because he was beaten soundly today if I go by the highlights.

Also how did Hamilton get on the Podium, who did he overtake?

[f1jcw]

All cars have stopped bouncing and porpoising. Second race we did not hear these words.

Have cars adopted flexy illegal plank?

[chrisc90]

I did not watch the race. But Leclerc overtook Max three times in one race. Surprised Max got caught out so many times. If it were Hamilton some crashing would have taken place to stop him.
Is Max too friendly with Charles? Because he was beaten soundly today if I go by the highlights.

Also how did Hamilton get on the Podium, who did he overtake?

Max had huge issues with tyre deg which meant he couldn’t really do anything in the corners. Ferrari had a great race today.
Sainz retired so Hamilton moved up from P4. He made his way up through the field passing 2x haas and ocon. Perez retired due to Russel crashing into him at turn 4 with a punctured side pod.

[mzso]

Without a shadow of a doubt they made a mistake by making the apex the final point to judge an overtaking decision. Should be the braking point, anyone on the outside gets hung out to dry because the decision is being made so late. Absolutely no opportunity to change trajectory on exit if you’re both racing to the apex. It doesn’t foster good racing.

They shouldn't define any such thing, turns and situations are very variable.
At this instance Russel didn't deserve a penalty because there was no possibility to take the turn tighter by the time Perez got in the way.

There most definitely should be sensible parameters or it ends up being VER tactics last year & an absolute freeforall; the same rules that governed racing before Masi f***ed it all up is all that’s required. The issue is the modification this yr. from start-of-braking zone to apex. If it’s the apex VER/SCH at Silverstone is what we’ll get. What I believe most people want is side-by-side action for multiple corners concurrently.

No, there shouldn't be. Idiotic changes were made for decades befor Masi, but everyone just accepted Whiting's sorry excuses/explanations, because he was there since forever. There needs to be an appropriate judgement case-by-case whether one caused a collision or had driven dangerously or not. Not lame rules that fail almost instantly.
Last year Ham got away with all the filthy moves, so I don't know what you're talking about Ver tactics.
Verstappen plainly forced off Schumacher in Silverstone, az did Perez for others, we don't need silly apex/braking spot rules for that. Both were let off. As was Hamilton in Abu Dhabi for cutting a whole turn when he was cleanly overtaken, and gaining seconds advantage, as was he in Silverstone before where caused a collision on purpose and only got a slap on the wrist.

[Watto]

I did not watch the race. But Leclerc overtook Max three times in one race. Surprised Max got caught out so many times. If it were Hamilton some crashing would have taken place to stop him.
Is Max too friendly with Charles? Because he was beaten soundly today if I go by the highlights.

Also how did Hamilton get on the Podium, who did he overtake?

Max had high tyre deg was a sitting duck with around a 1 sec a lap difference. I think perhaps Max after1 WDC ismore willing to settle for 2nd,


Lewis just did what Lewis does drove a clean race made the tyres last.