Chinese GP 2010 - Shanghai

[andrew]

They look completely knackered! It must have been hell in there!

[Giblet]

I read it. I even quoted it in one of my responses, as it applies to everything I have stated.

I've highlighted a word as well, since you think I am unclear with my thoughts.

d) "Except in cases of force majeure (accepted as such by the Stewards of the Meeting), the crossing, in any direction, of the line separating the pit entry and the track is prohibited."

Where does the line separate the track from the pit entry? I don't see track there off to the side, as this pit entry does nto run paralel with the track. At no point are the race track and the pit entry side by side, therefore, the line, which you think separates, doesn't.

We don't agree, and the rules are not clear as to what can be done in the pit entry, unless you cross the line which separates the track and pit entry which doesn't exist at this track.

As usual, you feel the need to personalize everything, while I take a slightly higher road, and simply discuss the incident, like an adult, or debater.

You really need to work on your tone, and not let things bother you so much. If you can logically convince me I am wrong, as I can see my point and yours, I will gladly, and humbly concede.

[segedunum]

Where does the line separate the track from the pit entry? I don't see track there off to the side, as this pit entry does nto run paralel with the track. At no point are the race track and the pit entry side by side, therefore, the line, which you think separates, doesn't.

You tried to argue that the pit lane exit and entry were treated differently. You were wrong. You're now back to this tac of trying to argue that the area beyond the white line somehow isn't a part of the track in some way and arguing semantics. It's just plain mad and it just shows how marginal you're having to go to try to get anywhere.

We don't agree

No, I'm afraid you cant paint this as a disagreement or a difference of opinion.

[q]As usual, you feel the need to personalize everything, while I take a slightly higher road, and simply discuss the incident, like an adult, or debater. You really need to work on your tone, and not let things bother you so much.[/quote]
Ad hominem. Take a look at your signature as to how much this truly bothers you mentally. Alas, behind those quotations I've always explained why - which is the part you love to leave out.

If you can logically convince me I am wrong, as I can see my point and yours, I will gladly, and humbly concede.

It's already been done. The pit lane exit and entry are governed equally. You're nuts. Borderline. Put that in your sig. Maybe it will get so large you won't have room to post anything.

[myurr]

I tend to agree with you, although there are regs about running another car off the track and Vettel arguably pushed Hamilton off the track into the pit garages.

Sigh............. When you're in front you're not running another driver off the circuit I'm afraid. You're entitled to place your car anywhere you like within the boundaries you are given. Vettel was in the pit lane, Hamilton wasn't.

So it's okay to chop across another car when they try and overtake on track forcing them off the road just because you're half a car ahead when you execute the maneuver? Suppose brake testing a car is okay in your book, as the car in front can do as they please!?

Think you'll find the stewards would disagree with you there and that there are rules that say you cannot force another car from the track. You can maintain the racing line (and Vettel moving right until his own wheels leave the track does not count as maintaining the racing line) through corner exit but only if the other car is clearly behind and has space to get out of your way.

At the point when Vettel moved to the right he didn't leave Hamilton anywhere to go which is why they ended up touching. Had Hamilton slowed at that point then they would have collided and he was already as far right as possible.

This is precisely why Vettel was warned for his conduct.

Why exactly are you defending the only driver in history (recent history at least) to not give another adequate room whilst driving side by side down the pit lane. Every other driver has managed it without drama or issue, including when Vettel benefited from other drivers giving him room, so why should he be excused his appalling conduct? Are you really that upset that McLaren with their allegedly downforce deficient car obliterated the amazing Red Bull on track, who had won the season before it had even started?

[segedunum]

So it's okay to chop across another car when they try and overtake on track forcing them off the road just because you're half a car ahead when you execute the maneuver?

You can't put your front wheel inside the rear wheel of a car in front into a corner and make contact, or go off-track to achieve the same effect. The whole 'chop' thing amuses me where Hamilton is concerned though.

However, you can't overtake cars that are ahead in the pit lane regardless and go out of bounds to do it though, and I'm afraid Vettel was more than half a car length anyway. The position had gone.

At the point when Vettel moved to the right he didn't leave Hamilton anywhere to go which is why they ended up touching.

He certainly had somewhere to go. Hamilton slows down and moves in behind. Easy. They ended up like that because Hamilton wanted to try and get alongside and overtake Vettel via the pitbox area when there was no room to do so and he had no position. That was Hamilton's decision to do that.

This has been repeated so many times it isn't funny.

Why exactly are you defending the only driver in history (recent history at least) to not give another adequate room whilst driving side by side down the pit lane.

Every other incident prior to this has been where drivers have ended coming out together to the point where they have simply had no choice but to drive side-by-side - because there are no rules on this side-by-side thing in the pitlane. That was not the case here. We had one driver behind simply wanting to force the issue when he was in no position to do so.

[myurr]

So it's okay to chop across another car when they try and overtake on track forcing them off the road just because you're half a car ahead when you execute the maneuver?

You can't put your front wheel inside the rear wheel of a car in front into a corner and make contact, or go off-track to achieve the same effect. The whole 'chop' thing amuses me where Hamilton is concerned though.

However, you can't overtake cars that are ahead in the pit lane regardless and go out of bounds to do it though, and I'm afraid Vettel was more than half a car length anyway. The position had gone.

At the point when Vettel moved to the right he didn't leave Hamilton anywhere to go which is why they ended up touching.

He certainly had somewhere to go. Hamilton slows down and moves in behind. Easy. They ended up like that because Hamilton wanted to try and get alongside and overtake Vettel via the pitbox area when there was no room to do so and he had no position. That was Hamilton's decision to do that.

This has been repeated so many times it isn't funny.

Why exactly are you defending the only driver in history (recent history at least) to not give another adequate room whilst driving side by side down the pit lane.

Every other incident prior to this has been where drivers have ended coming out together to the point where they have simply had no choice but to drive side-by-side - because there are no rules on this side-by-side thing in the pitlane. That was not the case here. We had one driver behind simply wanting to force the issue when he was in no position to do so.

So Hamilton's front wheel is not inside Vettel's rear and braking wouldn't cause them to crash?

They ended up like that because Vettel didn't give him room, unlike every other driver in that situation in history.

And you are really suggesting that there are no rules covering cars that are side by side but there is a rule saying that if you are half a car length ahead then you have the right to run another car off the track!?

[strad]

NOPE..the lane where Vettel was is the fast lane and where Louie was,,the "blue" lane is the slow lane. Louie wasn't even supposed to be at speed where he was..there is no question he should have tucked in behind Vettel

23) PIT LANE
23.1 a) For the avoidance of doubt and for description purposes, the pit lane shall be divided into two lanes. The lane closest to the pit wall is designated the "fast lane", and the lane closest to the garages is designated the "inner lane".

[Giblet]

Your opinion remains your own, as does mine.

I stand by my reasons, and have no need to keep arguing what I, the steweards, and the drivers, believe to be true. You are allowed to race in the pit lane entrance, regardless of why you believe otherwise. All of the semantics of where we differ, reflect nothing but opinion.

You have continually proven time again to be argumentative for no other reason, inflammatory, and contrary to the rules of this site, you continue to attack the poster, and not the post.

Someone believing what they think is right, does not make them "nuts".

You may have noticed that other people, including fresh new rookies, see you as the same.

You are unable to keep your emotions in check, and enjoy arguing too much.

I continue to stand by my points, and reserve my personal judgement about you, as my opinion of you is irrelevant to this forum on this discussion.

You have jumped into the deep end of being angry, and lost all hope of a logical discussion at all.

To be fair, since you mention my sig, it does seem to annoy you, and I will return it to where it was before. It was merely to point out your seeming inability to not take things, or make things personal.

Maybe we can start over, and you can refrain from not making it personal. I'll continue taking the higher ground, and you can chooses to take whatever road you want.

[FLC]

Both Hamilton and Alonso broke the rules. Their cars were completely out of the white lines. I've posted a picture of Hamilton's position in the desperate thread and here is Alonso's:


If this was on any other part of the circuit I bet we would be arguing the eternal "gaining unfair advantage" argument.

Also, looking at the picture of Vettel and Hamilton in the pit that myurr posted, I think that Hamilton kept on going along side like that because he saw that the way ahead was clear. If there were mechanics standing there waiting for a car, I'm pretty much sure that he would let go.

Very dangerous precedents in both cases in my opinion.

[Giblet]

For the record Seg, it does bother me. I don't lose sleep over it, I don't think about it when I am done typing my retorts to you, because you are a random stream of angry bits from some corner of the net.

Because you are the only one on this site who attacks me personally, and I don't see the need for it. I don't see why you would do that to anyone for a matter of fact.

I'd actually really like it if you would just stop with the name calling. I wonder why the moderators have warned you, and I don't care that you don't give a ---.

What I do care about, is that I respect this site, and 99% of its posters, and for the most part, I think 99% of them here respect me and what I have to say as well. I know this isn't the same for everyone who visits here.

So yes, it does bother me when only one of them treats me like an asshole.

[mx_tifoso]

It was fun while it lasted. Goodbye for now Chinese GP thread.

[mx_tifoso]

I just wanted to add some useful info about team mate battles I have written about here:
http://f1news.cz/novinky/34577-jak-dopa ... gu-v-cine/

Team-mates duels:

Qualification



Race - Fastest lap



Race - Average lap