2024 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[Luscion]

Merc refusal to allow LH to join Ferrari for post season testing at AD is a big set back for LH. Without the test on track it will be hard to get a good feel of exiting Ferrari and Charles set up.

not to get too into the ferrari stuff next year but he'll start driving for them in January at their own track in either the SF75 or SF23, both Lewis and Merc didnt want to do the tests in AD, plus Merc are doing a whole bunch of farewell stuff for him and obligations to sponsors

IMO all that farewell events are purposely created by Merc to making it harder and more painful for Lewis's departure to Ferrari. On surface, Toto may have a good relationship with LH, but other Merc shareholders may not sure the same enthusiasm. Especially INEOS buying into Merc at its peak and then got hit by the news that LH is leaving for Ferrari shortly after signing a new contract.

I read that LH biggest struggle is his ability to adapt to the new era of F1 cars and it will be a big advantage for him to get a feel of 2024 Ferrari at Abu Dhabi and collect as much track data to compare against Charles and Sainz.
I believe LH's first few races at Ferrari may make or break his Ferrari career due to the pressure and expectation on his shoulders. If he continues to struggle like 2024, it will be torturous for him mentally and physically to continue.

Naw, its something Lewis himself wants to do.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2024/11/ ... ason-test/

He is however 100% being left out of certain meetings and probably has been for awhile and has had no say in car development, which is just what happens when a driver leaves a team and thats affecting him. He struggles with this generation of car but it seems to be more specifically the Mercs, something Toto and Allison brought up. the W13 and 14 was kind on its tires but lacked rear downforce so it would step out constantly, the W15 has rear load but overheats its rear tires very quickly if its pushed too hard, something the ferrari doesnt suffer with. correct me if i'm wrong but Lewis and Charles have a similar approach where they ring the neck of the car to get the most out of it, so if ferrari can build that, he'll be fine

[AR3-GP]

Many including Hamilton have made Mercedes out to be the villain but there's nothing there. Hamilton will bounce back at Ferrari and people will use that to justify the nonsense stated about Mercedes but Mercedes was not the problem. It was Hamilton's own pinning up of Mercedes as the villains, wallowing in self pity, and then "refusing" to drive the car at the slightest inconvenience (of setup, of race position, and so on) which is something most other drivers deal with every weekend and something he himself has handled in his own past.

He's already made up his mind that Ferrari is the savior and that's the primary reason that he will bounce back. It will allow him to think normally and to start compensating for car issues again. No car is perfect. Mercedes was not perfect to drive from 2014-2020. Yet we have never seen Hamilton capitulate so easily back then...

He may have lost something with age, but it is not the explanation for the exxagerated deficits we see now. That is his own contribution. It's like an athlete with a bad knee who instead of compensating with the other leg, decided to keep putting all the load on the bad knee just to drive home the point that he has a bad knee and therefore competing is useless (wallowing in self pity...) rather than to compensate with the other leg. At Ferrari he will start compensating with the other leg again.

[CHT]

not to get too into the ferrari stuff next year but he'll start driving for them in January at their own track in either the SF75 or SF23, both Lewis and Merc didnt want to do the tests in AD, plus Merc are doing a whole bunch of farewell stuff for him and obligations to sponsors

IMO all that farewell events are purposely created by Merc to making it harder and more painful for Lewis's departure to Ferrari. On surface, Toto may have a good relationship with LH, but other Merc shareholders may not sure the same enthusiasm. Especially INEOS buying into Merc at its peak and then got hit by the news that LH is leaving for Ferrari shortly after signing a new contract.

I read that LH biggest struggle is his ability to adapt to the new era of F1 cars and it will be a big advantage for him to get a feel of 2024 Ferrari at Abu Dhabi and collect as much track data to compare against Charles and Sainz.
I believe LH's first few races at Ferrari may make or break his Ferrari career due to the pressure and expectation on his shoulders. If he continues to struggle like 2024, it will be torturous for him mentally and physically to continue.

Naw, its something Lewis himself wants to do.

https://www.motorsportweek.com/2024/11/ ... ason-test/

He is however 100% being left out of certain meetings and probably has been for awhile and has had no say in car development, which is just what happens when a driver leaves a team and thats affecting him. He struggles with this generation of car but it seems to be more specifically the Merc, something Toto and Allison brought up. the W13 and 14 was kind on its tires but lacked rear downforce so it would step out constantly, the W15 has rear load but overheats its rear tires very quickly if its pushed too hard, something the ferrari doesnt suffer with. correct me if i'm wrong but Lewis and Charles have a similar approach where they ring the neck of the car to get the most out of it, so if ferrari can build that, he'll be fine

That is a nice hypothesis that having similar driving style will give similar lap times on track. In modern F1, I reckon a driver's ability to adopt their driving style to changing environment and requirements may be the key to winning championship. Max for example is one driver that can do that on practically any track condition even when the car is not at its best.

LH has said recently that the car is ok, but he just doesnt know why he is slower.

[Luscion]

Many including Hamilton have made Mercedes out to be the villain but there's nothing there. Hamilton will bounce back at Ferrari and people will use that to justify the nonsense stated about Mercedes but Mercedes was not the problem. It was Hamilton's own pinning up of Mercedes as the villains, wallowing in self pity, and then "refusing" to drive the car at the slightest inconvenience (of setup, of race position, and so on) which is something most other drivers deal with every weekend and something he himself has handled in his own past.

He's already made up his mind that Ferrari is the savior and that's the primary reason that he will bounce back. It will allow him to think normally and to start compensating for car issues again. No car is perfect. Mercedes was not perfect to drive from 2014-2020. Yet we have never seen Hamilton capitulate so easily back then...

He may have lost something with age, but it is not the explanation for the exxagerated deficits we see now. That is his own contribution. It's like an athlete with a bad knee who instead of compensating with the other leg, decided to keep putting all the load on the bad knee just to drive home the point that he has a bad knee and therefore competing is useless (wallowing in self pity...) rather than to compensate with the other leg. At Ferrari he will start compensating with the other leg again.

Are you talking about this year or all of the mercs of these regs? cause the W13 was 100% a problem with it putting its drivers in physical pain. Both Russell and Lewis struggled with the W14's lack of rear downforce with it also not being a very good season for Russell, this is the first year Russell has out-qualified him. I think him wanting to retire the car was said in a moment of frustration, the convo with bono lasted a few seconds, the following lap Bono told him to retire the car, he ignored the order and finished the race, he's done it twice in the last 3 year but both times decided to finish the race. I agree quite a bit of his interviews have been self pity and being way too hard on himself, thats puts you in a horrible mindset and you can spiral pretty easily from it but he seemed to have stopped, at least from last weekend, saying he knows he still has it
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... /10678094/

In July Shov said Lewis had been working on his driving style this season so its not like hes just not willing to change
https://www.racefans.net/2024/07/19/ham ... e-shovlin/

And in Qatar bono was coaching him, with his times actually improving when he stopped late braking.

[AR3-GP]

Are you talking about this year or all of the mercs of these regs? cause the W13 was 100% a problem with it putting its drivers in physical pain. Both Russell and Lewis struggled with the W14's lack of rear downforce with it also not being a very good season for Russell, this is the first year Russell has out-qualified him. I think him wanting to retire the car was said in a moment of frustration, the convo with bono lasted a few seconds, the following lap Bono told him to retire the car, he ignored the order and finished the race, he's done it twice in the last 3 year but both times decided to finish the race. I agree quite a bit of his interviews have been self pity and being way too hard on himself, thats puts you in a horrible mindset and you can spiral pretty easily from it but he seemed to have stopped, at least from last weekend, saying he knows he still has it
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... /10678094/

I am talking about the last few rounds of this year (excluding Las Vegas).

The W13 and the W14 were flawed cars, but his competitiveness vs Russell was better, especially in qualifying. So what is happening now? The car is still the same hit or miss machine. Hamilton just seems suddenly far more irritable towards the tiniest of perceived car imbalances. His driving inputs no longer compensate for issues. They exacerbate them. That's what happens when you are stuck in "car is bad" wallowing...He's driving in the way that reinforces his beliefs that the car is bad (it's not amazing, but Russell got more from it)

Ferrari is what he needs to get back to normal, but there was the possibility for him to do better right now. We're at a point where people who are not even his fans are begging him to do better.

[PlatinumZealot]

Ah, sorry. I thought you were arguing in good faith.

Have a great evening.

I thought so too. Like I said, everything that happens to George is normal, but help me God, if something is wrong with Lewis. He has built this victim's temple around him this year. Ocon had no pit crew in Vegas when he pitted. No one cared or shouted conspiracy.

Is that profile photo of a Ferrari driver? Or McLaren driver?

[PlatinumZealot]

Merc refusal to allow LH to join Ferrari for post season testing at AD is a big set back for LH. Without the test on track it will be hard to get a good feel of exiting Ferrari and Charles set up.

Ferrari has their own race track though. So there will be many opportunities.

[PlatinumZealot]

Mercedes have simply turned their back on Hamilton when it was announced he was leaving. They put full focus on Russell gave him everything as he will be the number one driver going forward it’s that simple. So Lewis had no help left frustrated and is only human in how he is feeling. The car won’t be updated or made to suit his driving style that will be for George. Any team meetings on update or gains on track that the car can make with set up etc etc. it’s how it goes when you leave. People saying age is why Lewis has been rubbish this year. I very much doubt that, it’s the car, he’s never been comfortable no confidence or trust in it and when he does it snaps on him it’s so unpredictable and he isn’t liking it. If a driver has no feel in the car and can’t drive it naturally they will always suffer even more so when the team no longer gives you information or backing because you are leaving them and feel like they’ve been stabbed in the back

I believe so too. It's the hard truth. I would do the the same if I were Toto. The developments are coming but since Silverstone.... After that win... (yeah Lewis got too much from us! Make him starve a bit now).. In my opinion the team started twisting the development away from him after he spent months of hard work and experimentation getting it into a sweet window. That secret diversion away from the way Lewis guided the development , explains the dip in the car's form after mid seasons. The developments after that were now tuned to George in the meetings Lewis was not allowed to be apart of. And now the car is basically back to where it was in Silverstone and Spa but tuned away from Lewis handling style.

[Jurgen von Diaz]

Ah, sorry. I thought you were arguing in good faith.

Have a great evening.

I thought so too. Like I said, everything that happens to George is normal, but help me God, if something is wrong with Lewis. He has built this victim's temple around him this year. Ocon had no pit crew in Vegas when he pitted. No one cared or shouted conspiracy.

Is that profile photo of a Ferrari driver? Or McLaren driver?

It's a photo of Kimi Räikkönen.

[GrizzleBoy]

Mercedes have simply turned their back on Hamilton when it was announced he was leaving. They put full focus on Russell gave him everything as he will be the number one driver going forward it’s that simple. So Lewis had no help left frustrated and is only human in how he is feeling. The car won’t be updated or made to suit his driving style that will be for George. Any team meetings on update or gains on track that the car can make with set up etc etc. it’s how it goes when you leave. People saying age is why Lewis has been rubbish this year. I very much doubt that, it’s the car, he’s never been comfortable no confidence or trust in it and when he does it snaps on him it’s so unpredictable and he isn’t liking it. If a driver has no feel in the car and can’t drive it naturally they will always suffer even more so when the team no longer gives you information or backing because you are leaving them and feel like they’ve been stabbed in the back

I believe so too. It's the hard truth. I would do the the same if I were Toto. The developments are coming but since Silverstone.... After that win... (yeah Lewis got too much from us! Make him starve a bit now).. In my opinion the team started twisting the development away from him after he spent months of hard work and experimentation getting it into a sweet window. That secret diversion away from the way Lewis guided the development , explains the dip in the car's form after mid seasons. The developments after that were now tuned to George in the meetings Lewis was not allowed to be apart of. And now the car is basically back to where it was in Silverstone and Spa but tuned away from Lewis handling style.

Pretty much, but i don't know why it makes so many people mad just to have this opinion that's based on the history of F1 and common sense?

It's just obvious that a team is not going to bias a cars performance away from it's longer term drivers style for one that's going to a competitive rival team.

It's obvious that if there are performance enhancing parts under the hood, that the team will not exactly be giving PowerPoint presentations on what they are and how to make the most of them to a driver leaving for a competitive rival team. We've seen plenty of times that one car doesn't even get upgrades until multiple races later (see Piastri last year).

Just look at how Seb was trounced in his final year at Red Bull, immediately after a run of 4 WDCs. Turns out he was leaving for Ferrari and emerged in the new team as a leader who could at least put up a fight against merc for a while.

Which is why as much as I acknowledge Lewis' poor performance this year, I'll wait to judge him when he's in a team he has the backing of and who he is actually working with, instead of being phased out of.

[CHT]

Merc refusal to allow LH to join Ferrari for post season testing at AD is a big set back for LH. Without the test on track it will be hard to get a good feel of exiting Ferrari and Charles set up.

Ferrari has their own race track though. So there will be many opportunities.

To do it at AD after this week race will be much better as they will have LH some track data to compare his driving against Charles and Sainz from qualifying and actual race. This will help both LH and Ferrari to get a ballpark of what is expected

[Matt2725]

Mercedes have simply turned their back on Hamilton when it was announced he was leaving. They put full focus on Russell gave him everything as he will be the number one driver going forward it’s that simple. So Lewis had no help left frustrated and is only human in how he is feeling. The car won’t be updated or made to suit his driving style that will be for George. Any team meetings on update or gains on track that the car can make with set up etc etc. it’s how it goes when you leave. People saying age is why Lewis has been rubbish this year. I very much doubt that, it’s the car, he’s never been comfortable no confidence or trust in it and when he does it snaps on him it’s so unpredictable and he isn’t liking it. If a driver has no feel in the car and can’t drive it naturally they will always suffer even more so when the team no longer gives you information or backing because you are leaving them and feel like they’ve been stabbed in the back

I believe so too. It's the hard truth. I would do the the same if I were Toto. The developments are coming but since Silverstone.... After that win... (yeah Lewis got too much from us! Make him starve a bit now).. In my opinion the team started twisting the development away from him after he spent months of hard work and experimentation getting it into a sweet window. That secret diversion away from the way Lewis guided the development , explains the dip in the car's form after mid seasons. The developments after that were now tuned to George in the meetings Lewis was not allowed to be apart of. And now the car is basically back to where it was in Silverstone and Spa but tuned away from Lewis handling style.

What a load of tosh. The car's form dipped because Lewis wasn't guiding the development anymore? Give me a break. His "guided development" led to the W13 and W14.

Can we get back to serious commentary on this thread yet?

[RonMexico]

Many including Hamilton have made Mercedes out to be the villain but there's nothing there. Hamilton will bounce back at Ferrari and people will use that to justify the nonsense stated about Mercedes but Mercedes was not the problem. It was Hamilton's own pinning up of Mercedes as the villains, wallowing in self pity, and then "refusing" to drive the car at the slightest inconvenience (of setup, of race position, and so on) which is something most other drivers deal with every weekend and something he himself has handled in his own past.

He's already made up his mind that Ferrari is the savior and that's the primary reason that he will bounce back. It will allow him to think normally and to start compensating for car issues again. No car is perfect. Mercedes was not perfect to drive from 2014-2020. Yet we have never seen Hamilton capitulate so easily back then...

He may have lost something with age, but it is not the explanation for the exxagerated deficits we see now. That is his own contribution. It's like an athlete with a bad knee who instead of compensating with the other leg, decided to keep putting all the load on the bad knee just to drive home the point that he has a bad knee and therefore competing is useless (wallowing in self pity...) rather than to compensate with the other leg. At Ferrari he will start compensating with the other leg again.

Are you talking about this year or all of the mercs of these regs? cause the W13 was 100% a problem with it putting its drivers in physical pain. Both Russell and Lewis struggled with the W14's lack of rear downforce with it also not being a very good season for Russell, this is the first year Russell has out-qualified him. I think him wanting to retire the car was said in a moment of frustration, the convo with bono lasted a few seconds, the following lap Bono told him to retire the car, he ignored the order and finished the race, he's done it twice in the last 3 year but both times decided to finish the race. I agree quite a bit of his interviews have been self pity and being way too hard on himself, thats puts you in a horrible mindset and you can spiral pretty easily from it but he seemed to have stopped, at least from last weekend, saying he knows he still has it
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hami ... /10678094/

In July Shov said Lewis had been working on his driving style this season so its not like hes just not willing to change
https://www.racefans.net/2024/07/19/ham ... e-shovlin/

And in Qatar bono was coaching him, with his times actually improving when he stopped late braking.

He has asked to retire the car quite a bit with Mercedes. He did it in Germany 2019 too

[Mosin123]

Mercedes have simply turned their back on Hamilton when it was announced he was leaving. They put full focus on Russell gave him everything as he will be the number one driver going forward it’s that simple. So Lewis had no help left frustrated and is only human in how he is feeling. The car won’t be updated or made to suit his driving style that will be for George. Any team meetings on update or gains on track that the car can make with set up etc etc. it’s how it goes when you leave. People saying age is why Lewis has been rubbish this year. I very much doubt that, it’s the car, he’s never been comfortable no confidence or trust in it and when he does it snaps on him it’s so unpredictable and he isn’t liking it. If a driver has no feel in the car and can’t drive it naturally they will always suffer even more so when the team no longer gives you information or backing because you are leaving them and feel like they’ve been stabbed in the back

I believe so too. It's the hard truth. I would do the the same if I were Toto. The developments are coming but since Silverstone.... After that win... (yeah Lewis got too much from us! Make him starve a bit now).. In my opinion the team started twisting the development away from him after he spent months of hard work and experimentation getting it into a sweet window. That secret diversion away from the way Lewis guided the development , explains the dip in the car's form after mid seasons. The developments after that were now tuned to George in the meetings Lewis was not allowed to be apart of. And now the car is basically back to where it was in Silverstone and Spa but tuned away from Lewis handling style.

What a load of tosh. The car's form dipped because Lewis wasn't guiding the development anymore? Give me a break. His "guided development" led to the W13 and W14.

Can we get back to serious commentary on this thread yet?

Did Mercades not come out and say they didnt listen to the drivers feedback for the w12 and into the start of the season for the w13?. this season the car development has rightly moved towards GR who is not leaving for Ferrari, could argue the w13 was also built to suit GR seeing as Merc was alrdy planning for life with out LH that was why they only offered a 1+1 year deal much to the well public show of disapointment from LH and Toto saying it was so they didnt lose out on Antoneli, like they did Max..

[GrizzleBoy]

Mercedes have simply turned their back on Hamilton when it was announced he was leaving. They put full focus on Russell gave him everything as he will be the number one driver going forward it’s that simple. So Lewis had no help left frustrated and is only human in how he is feeling. The car won’t be updated or made to suit his driving style that will be for George. Any team meetings on update or gains on track that the car can make with set up etc etc. it’s how it goes when you leave. People saying age is why Lewis has been rubbish this year. I very much doubt that, it’s the car, he’s never been comfortable no confidence or trust in it and when he does it snaps on him it’s so unpredictable and he isn’t liking it. If a driver has no feel in the car and can’t drive it naturally they will always suffer even more so when the team no longer gives you information or backing because you are leaving them and feel like they’ve been stabbed in the back

I believe so too. It's the hard truth. I would do the the same if I were Toto. The developments are coming but since Silverstone.... After that win... (yeah Lewis got too much from us! Make him starve a bit now).. In my opinion the team started twisting the development away from him after he spent months of hard work and experimentation getting it into a sweet window. That secret diversion away from the way Lewis guided the development , explains the dip in the car's form after mid seasons. The developments after that were now tuned to George in the meetings Lewis was not allowed to be apart of. And now the car is basically back to where it was in Silverstone and Spa but tuned away from Lewis handling style.

What a load of tosh. The car's form dipped because Lewis wasn't guiding the development anymore? Give me a break. His "guided development" led to the W13 and W14.

Can we get back to serious commentary on this thread yet?

Lewis used the W14 to fight for P2 in the WDC.

George used the W15 guided in his direction, to fight for P6.