Turkish GP 2010 - Istanbul Park

[WhiteBlue]

People should stop to blame Vettel for a team order that went sour for the Red Bull team. Apparently the man was quicker and was told to pass Webber who was supposed to be told by his race engineer to let Vettel by. The race engineer refused or failed for some reason to pass the order on Webber.

Then the sh!t hit the fan and the GAU happened. But it isn't Vettels fault all this happened! He apparently was under order to pass and lost his points due to the team effing up.

All the communication coming out of Red Bull will be total BULLSHIT only designed to hide the fact that they actually issued a team order. They must cover it up now to avoid the disaster of further point loss or penalties for the team order.

[f1ssk]

" Ultimately both drivers should have given each other more room."

also in the video during the crash you can clearly see horner lipping "move" at the moment of crash. not "wtf is vettel doing" lol

wot they mean is webber must hav given room and they r still blaming him, coz it doesnt make sense to say that vettel must give room .

initially the statement was that vettel was slower and hami would have overtaken him , if he hadnt tried to overtake webber. In the new statement they say vettel was faster.

So if he was faster than webber he can defend the 1-2 better rite !!

RED Bull screwed up big time n dont know how to clean it up. they wanted vettel to win!

[Jersey Tom]

People should stop to blame Vettel for a team order that went sour for the Red Bull team. Apparently the man was quicker and was told to pass Webber who was supposed to be told by his race engineer to let Vettel by. The race engineer refused or failed for some reason to pass the order on Webber.

Oh? Fact or speculation?

[f1ssk]

Button is one cunning loser, when the team asked both drivers to conserve fuel and run at lower revs, Button thought he could out smart hami and changed the settings to overtake. [-X

Hami was pissed but didnt say anything. that showed in the rather unenthusiastic celebration.

Freaking Loser Button.

[WhiteBlue]

People should stop to blame Vettel for a team order that went sour for the Red Bull team. Apparently the man was quicker and was told to pass Webber who was supposed to be told by his race engineer to let Vettel by. The race engineer refused or failed for some reason to pass the order on Webber.

Oh? Fact or speculation?

Read the thread about the "strange goings-on at Red Bull"! I have quoted Helmut Marko's comments in two German articles and translated it for English speakers. There is very little doubt that this is actually what happened.

[99cent]

" Ultimately both drivers should have given each other more room."

also in the video during the crash you can clearly see horner lipping "move" at the moment of crash. not "wtf is vettel doing" !

At 3:31-32 horners lips "come on...MOVE!!" and throws his hands up in the air

http://www.510video.com/view/6365/vette ... prix-2010/]

[WhiteBlue]

RED Bull screwed up big time n dont know how to clean it up. they wanted vettel to win!

Agreed that Red Bull screwed up and don't know how to sell it. I disagree with the assessment that they wanted Vettel to win. What if Vettel was simply faster all weekend and they wanted the faster guy at the front? Webber's pole was a fluke. Vettel was faster but his suspension failure put him in the wrong position for the race. That was the problem they were trying to cure.

[Gary]

Agreed that Red Bull screwed up and don't know how to sell it. I disagree with the assessment that they wanted Vettel to win. What if Vettel was simply faster all weekend and they wanted the faster guy at the front? Webber's pole was a fluke. Vettel was faster but his suspension failure put him in the wrong position for the race. That was the problem they were trying to cure.

Oh dear... I'm sorry but those two assertions are a triumph of fanboyism over demonstrable reality. Terrific fun to read though. That'll have me chuckling all day.

[WhiteBlue]

Agreed that Red Bull screwed up and don't know how to sell it. I disagree with the assessment that they wanted Vettel to win. What if Vettel was simply faster all weekend and they wanted the faster guy at the front? Webber's pole was a fluke. Vettel was faster but his suspension failure put him in the wrong position for the race. That was the problem they were trying to cure.

Oh dear... I'm sorry but those two assertions are a triumph of fanboyism over demonstrable reality. Terrific fun to read though. That'll have me chuckling all day.

Demonstrable reality.... my ass! Vettel was faster in every free practise and quali session, actually in every stint of qualifying until his suspension broke. This covered 7.9 hours of driving on Friday and Saturday. I watched every minute of it. You have no idea what you are talking about.

[f1ssk]

WhiteBlue wrote:
Agreed that Red Bull screwed up and don't know how to sell it. I disagree with the assessment that they wanted Vettel to win. What if Vettel was simply faster all weekend and they wanted the faster guy at the front? Webber's pole was a fluke. Vettel was faster but his suspension failure put him in the wrong position for the race. That was the problem they were trying to cure.

that doesnt justify the fact that they can meddle with result but making webber run slower n then overtake.
All that speed over free practice n quali doesnt count for much if the cars are on similar pace. And left to themselves vettel with his superior pace (guess not more than .2s over webber) could not have over taken him at any cost. so as you say RB cannot correct their quali mistake with vettel and shouldnt have tried it. So finally bak to wot I said they wanted vettel to win.

[WhiteBlue]

WhiteBlue wrote:
Agreed that Red Bull screwed up and don't know how to sell it. I disagree with the assessment that they wanted Vettel to win. What if Vettel was simply faster all weekend and they wanted the faster guy at the front? Webber's pole was a fluke. Vettel was faster but his suspension failure put him in the wrong position for the race. That was the problem they were trying to cure.

that doesnt justify the fact that they can meddle with result but making webber run slower n then overtake.
All that speed over free practice n quali doesnt count for much if the cars are on similar pace. And left to themselves vettel with his superior pace (guess not more than .2s over webber) could not have over taken him at any cost. so as you say RB cannot correct their quali mistake with vettel and shouldnt have tried it. So finally bak to wot I said they wanted vettel to win.

I think we saw the same race. The Red Bulls were faster in the corners and the McLarens faster on the straights. On deteriorating tyres the Red Bulls disadvantage out of turn 9 onto the back straight was only going to be worse as the race went into the final stage.

I'm not passing judgement on Red Bull for what they attempted to do. All I'm saying is they issued the team order and not because they felt Vettel would look better than Webber on the podium. I believe they were concerned that Hamilton would end up on the top spot. I know this is opinion and I can't proove it, but neither can the people who say that Red Bull wanted to screw Webber for Vettel.

[PlatinumZealot]

Webber's engine was turned down to "save fuel." Rubbish! I am pretty sure Webber pace would be right up there with Vettel's, and RedBull already knows that the Mclaren's cannot catch up to the Bulls after turn 8, so a pass from Hamilton was basically impossible without a RedBull mistake.

Even if Webber is slower I hope he continues to beat Vettel for the rest of the season. Webber seems to have the psychological advantage so I guess he is halfway there.

[Jersey Tom]

I just have a hard time believing it.

There's no logical reason, with Mark 1st and Seb 2nd, to try to flip the results. Doesn't particularly matter to the race engineers if its Webber - Vettel or Vettel - Webber.

Why would they want Vettel to win that bad? I see no good reason, and those managers are sharp guys.

[Gary]

I just have a hard time believing it.

There's no logical reason, with Mark 1st and Seb 2nd, to try to flip the results. Doesn't particularly matter to the race engineers if its Webber - Vettel or Vettel - Webber.

Why would they want Vettel to win that bad? I see no good reason, and those managers are sharp guys.

No good reasons, as you say... but two reasons.

- The brand positioning of Red Bull the drink and Vettel's age and boyish good looks.
- Marko's position as the manager of the driver development program.

[Mysticf1]

- The brand positioning of Red Bull the drink and Vettel's age and boyish good looks.
- Marko's position as the manager of the driver development program.

Brand positioning is a big one IMHO, go for a browse on the Redbull site at their merchandise...theres maybe 2-3 items of Webber merch and countless Vettel labeled items..Obviously the European market is much larger than the Aussie one.

Has anyone read the Q&A with Horner on the formula1.com site? Quite an interesting change in opinion...me thinks they jumped the gun a bit. Or they were simply swayed by public opinion.

Q: Some people commented after the race that Webber was to blame - why was that?
CH: Ultimately we win as a team and we lose as a team and on Sunday we lost as a team, as a result of our two drivers having an incident. Having looked at all the information it’s clear that it was a racing accident that shouldn’t have happened between two team mates. After looking at all the facts that weren’t available immediately after the race, (Red Bull’s motorsport consultant) Dr Marko also fully shares this view.