This forum contains threads to discuss teams themselves. Anything not technical about the cars, including restructuring, performances etc belongs here.
Come on the drivers were not sucked in. Any driver would want to join a defending champ team. Rosberg definitely traded up from his williams (look where they are now) and Schuy badly wanted to get back in the mix cause he was never going to get a drive at Ferrari. Brawn and RBR were the 2 best teams of 2009 BY A LONG WAY and at the time there was no obvious reason why either should do badly in 2010.
On top of that, there are scurrilous rumours that Brawn has fallen out with Mercedes motorsport vice-president Norbert Haug, Stuttgart's man on the inside and a permanent fixture at races.
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Last edited by mx_tifoso on 18 Aug 2011, 09:10, edited 1 time in total.
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It will all work out. I think any bad feelings between Brawn and the German Masters might come from the lack of results and the fact that it will take time to turn things around. These things happen in any partnerships and things can never happen quick enough.
Norbert Haug might be getting anxious because he needs to explain to the Daimler Board of Directors for the lack of success and he needs results to justify for all the money being spent and possible budget increases (Please Herren, may I have somemore.......?)
The smiles will re-appear if they start getting good results.
of course it is ín effect the lack of results.But seriously it is the lack of speed that is more affecting them.If they banged pole after pole and fought at the front but failing to carry it to the end in the lead it wouldn´t be half as bad .
The chain of justification has started as soon as things started to show the pattern we are now familiar with: lots of promise ,underachievement, lack of improvement made up phrases to explain why it could not happen.The words we hear in public reflect what Haug had to tell the board.The same board he lured into buying the world championship team in the making.Haug is not even Windsor when it comes to understanding the technical side methinks ...so I tend to believe Brawn and Fry really pushed the right buttons to make him believe he will create a monument for himself reviving the silverarrows and himself as the Neubauer in modern times....
About the Windsor comment; I take it you're talking about Peter. He's not very technical, mind you. He even once said that softer tyres need more downforce while downforce doesn't make much of a difference on harder tyres or something to that effect. Or is that what you're getting at?
that´s my point.show him a few nice things and he will believe what he wants to believe...after all he´s a journo.I think Brawn and Fry have learned how to deal with media people.Haug was editor and deputy editor in both main car related publications in germany situated in Stuttgart ..
How exactly DID Norbert get to a motorsport position though? I'm not buying that Merc would be foolish enough to hire a lowly journo to a top ranking position
raymondu999 wrote:How exactly DID Norbert get to a motorsport position though? I'm not buying that Merc would be foolish enough to hire a lowly journo to a top ranking position
Large companies are not immune to a bit of ingratiating, brown-nosing and especially stupid decisions. It won't have been the first time someone has been put into a position that looks ill-fitting (can't get away from those size puns!). If Norb was head of Mercedes Motorsport he'd be seen far less often but he really seems to be acting as Team Principal right now. That's the top-heavy management that others have talked about.
Personally, I don't blame Mercedes for all the problems. I just happen to think they bought the wrong team. However, they have certainly started to make themselves part of the problem rather than the solution.
Norby is what he is a journo from nearby Pforzheim going to Stuttgart and turning his car and motorsports affection to his job.Not the worst idea .Remember him doing the "academic"driving in Hockenheim with some Mercedes DRM machinery (AMG Mercedes SL -Mampe anyone ?).I think he just lucked into an example of media -industry muddy interconnection thing and basically is the voice and ears of Mercedes Motorsports methinks.
Agreed. But we can't discredit him because of his roots, he has a lot more experience in motorsports than any of us here. That has to account for something. He does not come across as an idiot either. He seems rather bright.
The reason Mercedes turned to Haug in 1990 was because of his knowledge of Motorsports inside and outside of Germany.
He was a highly respected journalist of Auto motor und sport often given technical insight into the respective series he reported on.
He raced the 24 hour Nurburgring a few times finishing 2nd on one occasion and also (as above) tested a Williams F1 car.
It was Haug that championed Mercedes to get back into F1. He arranged the deal with Sauber in 1993, and while that didnt go according to plan now in 2011 Mercedes stand as the second most succesful engine manufacturer since joining Mclaren.
Some fat journo eh?
If it wasnt for him, Mercedes wouldnt be in F1. His negotiating skills brought Schumacher back(right or wrong, but we all like to see the man race even if it is for 7th and 8th)and also tied up with Mclaren to create one of the most succesful Manufacturer/garagista combinations in the history of F1(if not, then the most succesful).
He isnt Adrian Newey, but he is Mercedes point man, to coin an american phrase.
He isnt to blame for the cars performance, but it is up to him to report to Stuttgart why it is the case, and he will also no doubt have solutions. As we have already seen action being taken now.
It amuses me no end that suddenly Haug is the problem for some here and that he ought to go. Look at the guys record in Champ car, ITM, DTM, LMS and F1.
To his detractors I would just ask to show me a man that has achieved the results Haug has who is no longer fit for purpose.
Bear also in mind that Haug is in no way shape or form responsible for the technical side. That is now Bell's premise and was previously Brawn's. He is Mercedes overseer, and his involvement is a prerequisite of Mercedes involvement.
Now if someone came and lambasted Nick Fry, hell I'd be front of the queue! Once I have full confirmation of the team management I will post it so that we may pick the bones out of the "management is the problem" argument.
