2014 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring

[beelsebob]

I don't understand how does running higher revs save the overheating battery

I would expect that the reasoning goes along these lines:

The ICE produces the least torque at low revs
Electric motors (read, the MGU-K) produce a flat line torque band
Those two combined mean that you can get much better acceleration by using the MGU-K most at low revs to aid acceleration

The result of all that above is that if you keep the car at high revs all the time, and avoid the low rev range, then the MGU-K is used less often, and the battery is put under less stress trying to provide 160HP (plus efficiency loss) to it.

[SectorOne]

The ICE produces the least torque at low revs

I thought it was the opposite. Which you see in everyday cars where manufacturers like BMW almost produces max torque at near idle.

Ringo´s graph from the engine thread,

http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 268136&f=4

And M3/4 engine

[beelsebob]

What have an M3/4 engine got to do with a formula 1 engine?

[Pierce89]

I don't understand how does running higher revs save the overheating battery

I would expect that the reasoning goes along these lines:

The ICE produces the least torque at low revs
Electric motors (read, the MGU-K) produce a flat line torque band
Those two combined mean that you can get much better acceleration by using the MGU-K most at low revs to aid acceleration

The result of all that above is that if you keep the car at high revs all the time, and avoid the low rev range, then the MGU-K is used less often, and the battery is put under less stress trying to provide 160HP (plus efficiency loss) to it.

No the mgu- k does not produce a flat torque band. It produces a flat power band which means torque falls with rpm. Its normal for electric motors to produce less heat with the same power but higher rpms because the same power with less rpm requires more torque.

[George-Jung]

What have an M3/4 engine got to do with a formula 1 engine?

Turbo's?

[SectorOne]

What have an M3/4 engine got to do with a formula 1 engine?

As George said. Turbo´s.

I haven´t seen a single turbo engine have a torque curve that essentially mimics the horsepower curve all the way up to the rpm stop.

[timorous]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/07/30/2 ... nscript-2/
48 LH I can’t imagine these tyres lasting another 20 laps.
48 PB So the softs did an equivalent of 24 laps albeit from damp conditions so wear shouldn’t be an issue.
54 PB OK, Lewis. So 18 laps remaining. We need to get these tyres to the end.
54 LH Trying to manage these as best I can.
This is dragging too long (mostly repeating) so last thing: on a 10th lap of 31 lap stint on mediums Hamilton is saying those tyres won't last but when he says couple of laps before pitting that there's some pace in the softs, he pushes couple of laps and pits it's a proof that: 1 he could have done even longer stint without losing pace 2. final stint of 30ish laps on softs without problems. Does not make sense.

On softs he would have overtaken Alonso thanks to the extra pace they allowed, that would mean he was not fighting for position on the last 10 laps using up the tyres less, he may have been caught by Ricciardo in the last couple of laps but I doubt it unless he got stuck trying to overtake Alonso.

Now in hindsight you can see that Ricciardo did a 31 lap soft tyre run from lap 23 to lap 54. His lap times in that stint were similar to Hamilton's on his Medium tyre stint. 30 laps on new softs would have been easy for Hamilton. If you cannot see that then that is your problem.

[Regle]

Do you like Vettel then?

Hard to say. I liked the early, fresh Vettel. Now he's lost that a bit, probably due to professionalism and bad experiences with press exaggerating his statements or twisting his words in his mouth (as of course they do with all drivers), but in private he's probably still a nice guy so I still like him, but I don't adore him. I didn't want him to win that 4th championship. Oh, and yes, I'm German.

Yeah, I figured as much. Puts what you said earlier in perspective...

Why did I even try…

[Arterius]

I don't understand how does running higher revs save the overheating battery

I would expect that the reasoning goes along these lines:

The ICE produces the least torque at low revs
Electric motors (read, the MGU-K) produce a flat line torque band
Those two combined mean that you can get much better acceleration by using the MGU-K most at low revs to aid acceleration

The result of all that above is that if you keep the car at high revs all the time, and avoid the low rev range, then the MGU-K is used less often, and the battery is put under less stress trying to provide 160HP (plus efficiency loss) to it.

No the mgu- k does not produce a flat torque band. It produces a flat power band which means torque falls with rpm. Its normal for electric motors to produce less heat with the same power but higher rpms because the same power with less rpm requires more torque.

+1

[PlatinumZealot]

Ham had a fuel pump issue and had to keep the car revving to keep the fuel pressure up. I read that somewhere on the internets if anyone asks.

[PlatinumZealot]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/07/30/2 ... nscript-2/
48 LH I can’t imagine these tyres lasting another 20 laps.
48 PB So the softs did an equivalent of 24 laps albeit from damp conditions so wear shouldn’t be an issue.
54 PB OK, Lewis. So 18 laps remaining. We need to get these tyres to the end.
54 LH Trying to manage these as best I can.
This is dragging too long (mostly repeating) so last thing: on a 10th lap of 31 lap stint on mediums Hamilton is saying those tyres won't last but when he says couple of laps before pitting that there's some pace in the softs, he pushes couple of laps and pits it's a proof that: 1 he could have done even longer stint without losing pace 2. final stint of 30ish laps on softs without problems. Does not make sense.

Iotar, Iotar.

You seem to have not one iota of attention to detail my friend...

If you may, the soft 2014 Pirelli tyre is a very, very different tyre than the Mediums - more different than we have ever seen before in any Formula 1 tyre selection. The 2014 Pirelli tyre selection, has the medium grade tyre with a LOWER switching on temperature than the soft tyres. This alone seems unnatural, almost an anomaly even - and it tells us the soft and mediums are of two totally unrelated compounds. Not like in the past where the soft had a bit more natural rubber than the medium where one can expect the mediums to naturally last longer and work at a higher temperature range. Not so! In 2014 it is Just not so! so stop trying to extrapolate how much long the mediums can last than the softs - it is pointless this year.

Evidence is in Free Practice and the Race that the Soft tyre was lasting as long if not longer than the Medium tyres. The mercedes was 1 seconds a lap faster than the Ferrari in free air in Practice on the same tyre, but on FRESHER Mediums Hamilton could not even get enough grip to DRS Alonso's Ferrari on 30 lap old USED softs. People were doing near 30 laps on softs on full tanks. That was obviously the tyre for the race. Mercedes thought the cooler conditions the Medium would be better but they were wrong... It got worse!

[Raleigh]

So very true...

Groaned when I saw Williams go onto mediums. All through practice the mediums had been +1 sec slower than softs and not lasting as long. Why exactly would Williams (and Mercedes) think that was going to be any different in the race?

[mikeerfol]

So very true...

Groaned when I saw Williams go onto mediums. All through practice the mediums had been +1 sec slower than softs and not lasting as long. Why exactly would Williams (and Mercedes) think that was going to be any different in the race?

And Mclaren as well.

[Glyn]

Why didn't anyone mention how poor it was for Pirelli not being able to produce a harder tyre that lasted longer....

[rayden]

To be fair, there has been a bit of a pattern this year of the prime being rubbish on fridays but coming good on sundays once the track has rubbered in.