Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[MrPotatoHead]

This is what really baffles me about the 3D printing rumors.

It implies that the piston is either an enclosed honeycomb/ fancy oil gallery or has some sort of massive undercuts that just can't be machined after forging. The problem with these is that the 'dry' honeycomb is poor at conducting heat, while any complicated geometry that involves oil circulation is very inefficient.

A few years ago I looked at gallery cooled steel pistons and the fill ratio of the galleries was as low as 30% with squirt jets pointing straight at the inlets. Not only that, but oil circulation was very poor too, as at high engines speeds the oil was sticking to the walls and was not being displaced by fresh 'cool' oil.

I can hardly imagine anything better than an 'open' structure that is saturated by a dozen cooling nozzles.

Maybe 3D printing is just used for convenience, surely it must be a lot faster than having to wait on forging tooling for every single iteration ? Several suppliers offer powdered sintered tool steels with proof strength in excess of 2GPA and excellent cleanliness, can't see why similar quality can't be achieved with SLS/SLM.

It would be because of internal "honeycomb" areas that are impossible to machine / cast / forged into the piston.
3D Printing (I'm assuming in this case a powder bed layup type of machine) will generally be slower. But what you gain from it is the ability to print things that would otherwise be impossible to machine or to reduce the number of components down from many to 1.

[63l8qrrfy6]

It would be because of internal "honeycomb" areas that are impossible to machine / cast / forged into the piston.
3D Printing (I'm assuming in this case a powder bed layup type of machine) will generally be slower. But what you gain from it is the ability to print things that would otherwise be impossible to machine or to reduce the number of components down from many to 1.

The point was that the honeycomb is not good for cooling the crown so why bother 3D Printing ?
I don't know exact timelines but I am pretty sure you can print something before a supplier can even get the forging tooling done, let alone go through all forging validation tasks.

Would it not be correct to state that for best thermal efficiency in the combustion chamber, one would want to minimise heat losses to the surfaces the flame front comes in to contact with. In such a case, a cooler piston would be a greater absorber of CC heat than a hot piston.

The reason one would cool an aluminium piston is to maintain a bulk material temperature which is appropriate to the properties of the material and the loads applied.

I was in now way saying that the steel piston needs to be cooled to the same crown surface temperature as the aluminium piston. But steel is about 5 times less conductive, so even for a significantly thinner crown, the surface temperatures would be much higher.

[stevesingo]

I was in now way saying that the steel piston needs to be cooled to the same crown surface temperature as the aluminium piston. But steel is about 5 times less conductive, so even for a significantly thinner crown, the surface temperatures would be much higher.

Provided the surface doesn't become so hot that the shape is still retained and there are no areas that become a source of ignition, that can only be a good thing in terms of minimising CC temp loss, right?

edit for spelling whilst sober.

[PhillipM]

Bingo, unlike a traditional engine you might not want the crown excessively cooled - that's just energy you're wasting, a hot crown with a honeycomb insulator and heatpaths/galleries/oil cooling around the ring pack would be the ideal for these engines, surely?

[PlatinumZealot]

I stick to my open waffle. You guys can stick to your closed honeycomb.

[gruntguru]

Mmmmm waffle.

[bill shoe]

Mmmmm waffle.

Is Ferrari using a secret syrup tank to increase power during qualifying?

[gruntguru]

I stick to my open waffle. You guys can stick to your closed honeycomb.

Honeycomb is stickier than waffle - until you add syrup.

[MrPotatoHead]

I stick to my open waffle. You guys can stick to your closed honeycomb.

Honeycomb is stickier than waffle - until you add syrup.

You're making me really hungry here

[roon]

Depends, if they are Belgian style, thermal emissivity & structural integrity will be quite good, at a cost to weight. Since these are Italian pistons, it is more like they are pizelle style, wide and thin, loaded with anise-tropic features to minimize material use.

[PlatinumZealot]

The new spec Ferrari engine is looking very strong in the Haas.

[Xwang]

Italian sky has said it is not third spec

[gruntguru]

Depends, if they are Belgian style, thermal emissivity & structural integrity will be quite good, at a cost to weight. Since these are Italian pistons, it is more like they are pizelle style, wide and thin, loaded with anise-tropic features to minimize material use.

Either way, the heat is applied from above and below.

[outsid3r]

Italian sky has said it is not third spec

If I understood correctly HAAS''s is the 3rd PU but old spec. They also said that the 3rd PU Ferrari are bringing to Silverstone will also be old spec. However, what I don't understand is why put a new PU in both cars (that is my understanding as they didn't specify otherwise)? VET's 2nd engine is relatively new as it 'skipped' a race, so surely they don't need to introduce a new one if it didn't have any upgrades what-so-ever?

[roon]

Depends, if they are Belgian style, thermal emissivity & structural integrity will be quite good, at a cost to weight. Since these are Italian pistons, it is more like they are pizelle style, wide and thin, loaded with anise-tropic features to minimize material use.

Either way, the heat is applied from above and below.

As is the syrup, if the rumors are true.