Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

[hemichromis]

if you hear hoof beats do you think zebra or horse?

[hemichromis]

Christian Horner:

"I think we will get the same equipment as Renault – they are always extremely fair,"

"We are also pleased to see Renault confirm its long-term commitment to Formula 1 and would like to thank them for their contribution to the team [as an engine supplier] since 2007.

"Their technical partnership with Ilmor gives us confidence, and we look forward to the 2016 season."
(My emphasis)

Cyril Abiteboul:

“If getting full support means getting the same engine as us, and the same upgrade as us, then yes, absolutely (that will happen),” said Abiteboul.
“They will have exactly the same. We have an obligation from the regulations to supply exactly the same equipment.
“But there won’t be any form of branding or marketing for obvious reasons.
“If we have an upgrade, they will also have an upgrade.

“To be honest it’s great we will have another team that will be using the same equipment as us.”
Abiteboul also confirmed that Red Bull will receive the same leave of technical support as it previously received.
“There will be continuity at the track, with the same faces as you saw last year in the Red Bull garage,” added Abiteboul.
“They will be dressed different, but their faces will be the same.”


So there we have it:

Regulations say NO

Red Bull say NO

Renault say NO

What do you say?

Zebra?

[wuzak]

Source please!

I'm afraid the only sources there are are two power units with different names.

In 2001 Prost Grand Prix ran Acer badging for their engine. Did that mean they made it different to the engine Ferrari supplied (along with gearbox and complete rear suspension)?

Also, for several seasons Sauber ran Petronas branding for their Ferrari engines. Did they also modify them?

[ringo]

Christian Horner:

"I think we will get the same equipment as Renault – they are always extremely fair,"

"We are also pleased to see Renault confirm its long-term commitment to Formula 1 and would like to thank them for their contribution to the team [as an engine supplier] since 2007.

"Their technical partnership with Ilmor gives us confidence, and we look forward to the 2016 season."
(My emphasis)

Cyril Abiteboul:

“If getting full support means getting the same engine as us, and the same upgrade as us, then yes, absolutely (that will happen),” said Abiteboul.
“They will have exactly the same. We have an obligation from the regulations to supply exactly the same equipment.
“But there won’t be any form of branding or marketing for obvious reasons.
“If we have an upgrade, they will also have an upgrade.

“To be honest it’s great we will have another team that will be using the same equipment as us.”
Abiteboul also confirmed that Red Bull will receive the same leave of technical support as it previously received.
“There will be continuity at the track, with the same faces as you saw last year in the Red Bull garage,” added Abiteboul.
“They will be dressed different, but their faces will be the same.”


So there we have it:

Regulations say NO

Red Bull say NO

Renault say NO

What do you say?

Zebra?

Thank you!!

[djos]

Christian Horner:

"I think we will get the same equipment as Renault – they are always extremely fair,"

"We are also pleased to see Renault confirm its long-term commitment to Formula 1 and would like to thank them for their contribution to the team [as an engine supplier] since 2007.

"Their technical partnership with Ilmor gives us confidence, and we look forward to the 2016 season."
(My emphasis)

Cyril Abiteboul:

“If getting full support means getting the same engine as us, and the same upgrade as us, then yes, absolutely (that will happen),” said Abiteboul.
“They will have exactly the same. We have an obligation from the regulations to supply exactly the same equipment.
“But there won’t be any form of branding or marketing for obvious reasons.
“If we have an upgrade, they will also have an upgrade.

“To be honest it’s great we will have another team that will be using the same equipment as us.”
Abiteboul also confirmed that Red Bull will receive the same leave of technical support as it previously received.
“There will be continuity at the track, with the same faces as you saw last year in the Red Bull garage,” added Abiteboul.
“They will be dressed different, but their faces will be the same.”


So there we have it:

Regulations say NO

Red Bull say NO

Renault say NO

What do you say?

Zebra?

Thank you!!

From me too!

Nice to see some commonsense prevail!

[carisi2k]

Post barcelona test 1.

There have been reports that the Renault is now producing 900hp. Yet the Danny's don't seem to think much progress has been made since 2015. Did Red Bull have the latest 2016 engine or a late 2015 engine for testing I wonder?

[gandharva]

Conservative engine settings. E.g. Vettel gained 3 km/h top speed per compound when he did his SS and US stints. Riccardo gained nothing. Not that I think Vettel went full out, but I think Renault was even more conservative than Ferrari.

[gruntguru]

AH also says 75% turbine efficiency would bring around 53hp electric while 80% equates 94hp, but I dont know where these numbers exactly come from.

If those numbers are true, the turbine and compressor power can be calculated.

(Isentropic turbine power x efficiency) - compressor power = electric power. So we get two simultaneous equations:
Pti x 0.75 - Pc = 53 . . . . . (a)
Pti x 0.80 - Pc = 90 . . . . . (b)

(b) - (a) -> Pti x 0.05 = 90 - 53
so Pti = 740 hp (Pt = 555 or 592)
and Pc = 592 hp. Not likely. Perhaps he meant turbine AND compressor efficiencies in which case the equations become:

Pti x 0.75 - Pci/0.75 = 53 . . . . . (a)
Pti x 0.80 - Pci/0.80 = 90 . . . . . (b)

and Pci = 198 (Pc = 264 or 247.5 and Pt = 317 or 337.5) Closer but still not likely. For comparison, a 75% efficient compressor flowing 650 g/s (lambda = 1.6) at 3.5 atm MAP will require 148 hp. To get to 264 hp the mixture would need to be leaned to about 2.2 for an airflow of 890 g/s and a MAP of 4.8 atm. Nobody believes the cars are running this much boost.

Pti = Power of isentropic (100% eff) turbine
Pt = actual turbine Power = Pti x eff
Pci = Power of isentropic (100% eff) compressor
Pc = actual compressor Power = Pci / eff

[toraabe]

They also say Renault was aiming for more than 80% efficiency for the turbine in 2015 but backpressure was robbing too much power from the engine for several reasons...

You could hear it when the RB was passing. It sounded muted. Remember that high backpressure raisens the temperature, and can contribute to engine failure ,....

[Blackout]

Thanks gruntguru.
AH also says increasing the compression ratio is the one of the key to fight that backpressure. But dunno who's speaking in that article, Taffin himself, or the Journo based on informations and numbers provided by Taffin, or just the AH journo who did some investigations elsewhere...

Autohebdo says one of the reasons backpressure was too high is because the V6-turbine harmony wasnt optimal...

[carisi2k]

Something I read on another site showed that the Red Bull top speed was only 322km/h vs the Renault F1 top speed of 332km/h. Is Red Bull making things worse by having too much down force? Only the McHonda was slower.

[djos]

Something I read on another site showed that the Red Bull top speed was only 322km/h vs the Renault F1 top speed of 332km/h. Is Red Bull making things worse by having too much down force? Only the McHonda was slower.

It's more likely that the Renault isn't generating enough down force. They've had no dev budget until the very end of last year.

[Blackout]

Nope. The Renault has roughly the same top speed as the Merc-powered Lotus in this circuit...
And this RS.16 is like a late version of the E23 so it should have more DF.
IMO the main reason is RBR and Renault used different PU specs... and DF

[carisi2k]

Nope. The Renault has roughly the same top speed as the Merc-powered Lotus in this circuit...
And this RS.16 is like a late version of the E23 so it should have more DF.
IMO the main reason is RBR and Renault used different PU specs... and DF

So Red Bull was running a Brazil 2015 engine with about 850hp and Renault had a full beans 2016 engine with the supposed 900HP.

[Blackout]

Maybe yes.
We shouldn't focus too much on the RB top speed, we dont know the conditions (we know RIC said the he feels the PU is developing the same power as late 2015, though) but the Renault one is quite interesting.