2017 Azerbaijan Grand Prix - Hamilton vs Vettel incident

[Phil]

I agree, Hamilton's race position is irrelevant. Hamilton didn't lose the race because of Vettel (other than the fact that the red flag probably caused this unfortunate eventuality).

The problem I think is that the stewards decided on a too lenient punishment (10s stop and go). In pretty much any sport, such an action would yield an immediate red-card / dsq on the spot. The fact that the stewards didn't is (due to not wanting to interfere with the WDC) what is causing the FIA to look into this. I also feel that the incident of last years Mexican GP and that Vettel is on "probation" for something similar to road rage is not quite irrelevant and may play into why he is being re-investigated.

As I said, I don't dislike Vettel, but IMO the punishment was not appropriately given. It should have been a black flag and DSQ right there. In that sense, the best outcome to this in my opinion would be a DSQ for that GP, but no impact on any future races. Confine the action to that race.

I also think that Vettel is silly for not accepting blame here post race. This may have been avoided if he had come out after the race and said; "Sorry, I misunderstood that to be a brake-test in the heat of the moment, I wanted to show him my annoyance but there was no intent to ram him. I'm ashamed that it happened bla bla ba" and my guess is this would have been far less of an issue than it has become.

[TAG]

"Here's the message to Charlie, f*** off!"

Call me a troll, but this statement from the mexican Gp wont hold up in a court of law. Who is this Charlie he is referring to? Could be anyone. FIA and stewards think it is Charlie Whiting, but it could be argued that it is not. Vettel can only be accused of using foul language, but then lots of drivers use it during races. Making a call over a radio to a team is very different to speaking with a person face-to-face and saying f-off. There is no case against Vettel with regards to Mexican GP IMO.

Re: Baku, FIA needed to have looked at the telemetry, spoken to the driver, carried out an investigation after the race and given a grid penalty and 3 points on license. People are sour that he finished ahead of HAM despite the penalty. That's bad luck for HAM. Opening an investigation 3 days after the race is a bit lazy, and disrespectful of the stewards decision taken at the race.

It's not a court of law so the "legal" arguments don't hold water in the same way. It is a sport body and they *ARE* the law. Vettel was admonished last year and specifically the admonishment spoke of him not having a similar outburst in the future... well, we're here.

[wickedz50]

I agree to your point that people were left sour after the manner in which Vettel finished ahead of Ham despite the penalty. This hurts more than anything.

[sAx]

"Here's the message to Charlie, f*** off!"

Opening an investigation 3 days after the race is a bit lazy, and disrespectful of the stewards decision taken at the race.

Not lazy at all ...just means that the penalty doesn't fit the misdemeanour! A precedence of type was set in Canadian GP with double penalty for Kvyat...if at first you don't get it right increase the severity!!

[TAG]

Ergo Lewis did NOTHING wrong, no matter what´s your point of view, facts are facts, and in this case it´s proved the only thing a leader cannot do, was not done by the race leader.

guys, please, I am not making the point that Lewis DID anything WRONG. Please please please try to read my input and not just drive your own opinion. I am merely stating the fact that from the telemetry it did show that he for a brief moment started to accelerate (maintained the same speed, which meant he gave a little gas). That is not wrong, not mean etc. etc. Not me being a fanboy, not me trying to clear Vettel etc.

It was just a very clever move, that is what is needed when you are the leading driver, you must try to create the situation that you will be the first to go on the gas. I have also seen a few people argue the point that Hamilton could not go on the gas at turn 15 at all yet. That could be (is) true, but he was just keeping the followers on their toes, making sure they can't follow too close so that when the moment does come they can't be too close and he will always have a gap.

The data is clearly there in the graphic released by the FIA and we could al see it with our own eyes during the race.

So we agree, along with the steward, that Hamilton did nothing that wasn't within his right as the person controlling the race could/should do.

So what are you arguing then?

Vettel's entire argument is that it was Hamilton's fault and he was going to show him fro having brake tested him and he showed him by deliberately driving along side making sure he was seen and then hitting his car in a calculated way. It's calculated because there is ZERO reaction during the impact from Vettel, meaning he knew that the impact was coming.

When he's shown that wasn't the case he like quite a number of people on this forum, like you continue to grasp at staws and deny the facts instead choosing to obfuscate with minutia choosing to focus on a non delelaration period from Hamilton lasting appx 4 tenths of a second while not looking at Vettel's delta speed or at the onboard differences from Vettle not Hamilton during the first and second restarts. It was Vettel that did things differently not Hamilton. But you would rather look at a four tents line in the data to "prove" your point that because of that, Vettel should be absolved from all charges. Oy vey.

[Vasconia]

I agree to your point that people were left sour after the manner in which Vettel finished ahead of Ham despite the penalty. This hurts more than anything.

You can´t blame Vettel for the problem which led Lewis to loose the race.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

I agree to your point that people were left sour after the manner in which Vettel finished ahead of Ham despite the penalty. This hurts more than anything.

You can´t blame Vettel for the problem which led Lewis to loose the race.

You are forgetting that, if the incident would not have happened, there would have been no red flag and without that, no need to get out of the car.

[GrizzleBoy]

Ergo Lewis did NOTHING wrong, no matter what´s your point of view, facts are facts, and in this case it´s proved the only thing a leader cannot do, was not done by the race leader.

guys, please, I am not making the point that Lewis DID anything WRONG. Please please please try to read my input and not just drive your own opinion. I am merely stating the fact that from the telemetry it did show that he for a brief moment started to accelerate (maintained the same speed, which meant he gave a little gas). That is not wrong, not mean etc. etc. Not me being a fanboy, not me trying to clear Vettel etc.

It was just a very clever move, that is what is needed when you are the leading driver, you must try to create the situation that you will be the first to go on the gas. I have also seen a few people argue the point that Hamilton could not go on the gas at turn 15 at all yet. That could be (is) true, but he was just keeping the followers on their toes, making sure they can't follow too close so that when the moment does come they can't be too close and he will always have a gap.

The data is clearly there in the graphic released by the FIA and we could al see it with our own eyes during the race.

So during a period of about 3s of constant deceleration through the corner, Ham held his speed after the apex for 0.4s, before continuing to decelerate at the exact same rate as previous.

Therefore?

What point are you making exactly?

What's clever about it? Backing up the pack before a restart is all of a sudden not a standard procedure?

If you acknowledge that he wouldn't be able to bolt until the next corner which wasn't exactly close by and also had to wait for the SC to create a gap since his engineer told him he almost overtook the SC on the last restart, why are you twisting yourself in knot's for the truth to not be the reality you've already accepted exists?

[Vasconia]

I agree to your point that people were left sour after the manner in which Vettel finished ahead of Ham despite the penalty. This hurts more than anything.

You can´t blame Vettel for the problem which led Lewis to loose the race.

You are forgetting that, if the incident would not have happened, there would have been no red flag and without that, no need to get out of the car.

No sorry, blame the mechanics for not adjusting this piece correctly.

[santos]

I agree to your point that people were left sour after the manner in which Vettel finished ahead of Ham despite the penalty. This hurts more than anything.

You can´t blame Vettel for the problem which led Lewis to loose the race.

You are forgetting that, if the incident would not have happened, there would have been no red flag and without that, no need to get out of the car.

Nop, the red flags didn't came because of the incident of Vettel and Hamilton... there was too many bits of carbon fiber left on the track... Alonso suggested that the race should be stopped... and it was.

[TAG]

Agreed, blame anyone as long as it isn't Vettel.

[WaikeCU]

You can´t blame Vettel for the problem which led Lewis to loose the race.

You are forgetting that, if the incident would not have happened, there would have been no red flag and without that, no need to get out of the car.

Nop, the red flags didn't came because of the incident of Vettel and Hamilton... there was too many bits of carbon fiber left on the track... Alonso suggested that the race should be stopped... and it was.

...Which Vettel caused it first by running into Hamilton. Pieces of front wing was littered, then we had the Force India's and Kimi who littered pieces of carbon all across the circuit as well.

[Vasconia]

Agreed, blame anyone as long as it isn't Vettel.

Are you just trolling or what?

Unless you can demonstrate that the contact between both cars mistfited that piece I reach the conclusion that you must be trolling, seriously.

[Jano11]

I agree to your point that people were left sour after the manner in which Vettel finished ahead of Ham despite the penalty. This hurts more than anything.

You can´t blame Vettel for the problem which led Lewis to loose the race.

You are forgetting that, if the incident would not have happened, there would have been no red flag and without that, no need to get out of the car.

Rubbish, the red flag had nothing to do with what happened between Vettel and Hamilton.

[motobaleno]

I agree, Hamilton's race position is irrelevant. Hamilton didn't lose the race because of Vettel (other than the fact that the red flag probably caused this unfortunate eventuality).

that's completely not true. you guys are going in a sort of resonance that may will lead you to ask for death penalty for vettel in few time.
maybe you are thinkink of soccer...and even in soccer many reaction faults are not punished with red but with yellow.
in rugby reaction faults most times are not punished at all (and they are widely considered as a sign of proud and honor expecially when they come as an answer to a behavior that can be considered maybe legal but not honorable...this does not remind anything to you? maybe kids are not watching rugby too? ).
Incidentally the pathos world behind rugby is maybe similar to racing...danger knights and stuff like this...
In basketball they are mostly punished with a techincal fault witouht no further consequence on the player except if the fault caused a physical damage to the other player...

10 seconds stop and go is a very hard punishment: many faults bigger and extremley more dangerous than vettel's one have been punished weaker or not at all.
and please don't answer with the obvious: "reaction faults must be punished harder than an equivalent not intentional fault": indeed this is just the case! since that contact if it was not intentional would have not been even investigated being completely without consequences for the drivers. so the harder punishment has been inflicted.

of course the real problems is that F1 is an english world and, when it counts, this asymmetry comes completely out.
you simply don't want to see the naked king.