2018 Italian Grand Prix - Monza, 31 Aug - 2 Sep

[Jambier]

Vettel's blaming the other party for the collision.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vett ... 83/?nrt=54

Sure...


Ferrari lost bost WC in 2008 with a poor line up ( Massa-Raikkonen)
Ten years later, the story is the same.

Vettel is approx the same level of Massa, Raikkonen is now too slow. They need a full line up change.

[langedweil]

B...hurt Alonso and Verstappen fanbois you say ? Finally we're getting rid of the former; it will make F1 less toxic and better overall. Maybe some people will miss the fake drama he creates. As for the latter, he's proven he's incapable of learning from his mistakes. The only thing we can hope now is that he gets slammed with penalties for his antics; which I have no doubt he'll keep attempting.

Apparently your opinion is somehow hardwired .. pity.
Why not keep the 4 engines at bay in a testlab, rank them by an computer algoritm, fire them up every 2 wks for 1,5hrs, distribute the points afterwards, create a dumbass show around it, and call it a F1 race.

I just want to see racing, fights between angry drivers afterwards .. a little more passion instead of eloquent gizzles about entitlement.

But hey, who am I ...

[Restomaniac]

Vettel's blaming the other party for the collision.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vett ... 83/?nrt=54

This is how it starts, the red mist tends to follow. I am afraid for a 2017 ending all over again.

I don’t get why drivers don’t ask for video footage in these cases. If both Him and Verstappen had looked before facing the press they wouldn’t end up putting their feet in their mouths so much.

There is no way they can have looked at either incident again and then made the statements they have.

[bonjon1979]

Vettel's blaming the other party for the collision.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/vett ... 83/?nrt=54

Hamilton must’ve lost some of his floor there
Sure...
https://i.imgur.com/512FevL.jpg

Ferrari lost bost WC in 2008 with a poor line up ( Massa-Raikkonen)
Ten years later, the story is the same.

Vettel is approx the same level of Massa, Raikkonen is now too slow. They need a full line up change.

[Restomaniac]

Whatever happened to vettels unsafe release? Was described as a slam dunk at the time. Any video of it?

Teds notebook has said that it was indeed a slam dunk unsafe release but because it was Sauber they have not called for an investigation (They get a lot of stuff from Ferrari) and the FIA/Stewards are happy to sweep it under the carpet.

Brilliant. So once again a rich team get to bend the rules because they have too much sway on another team.

[Sieper]

The green stuff is not tarmac, so grip is different. If a car goes over the green stuff with left wheels under braking, that could easily cause a spin and crash.

Bottas went to the left all he could safely, there was no need to assume the risk of braking on the green stuff, there was more than enough space. But Max decided to not let him enough space. Not a surprise I´m afraid


Well deserved penalty for Verstappen

The track limits is the white line, not the grass. So Bottas went as far as he could. Verstappen squeezed him too much.

That´s what I was trying to say, but shorter and easier to understand

But it is not grass, it in fact just is tarmac, but painted green, they used it all the time in the qualy laps.

Bottas also wasn’t even passed yet, he has Merc Power, DRS, fresher tires, why not overtake like Hamilton did on Raikonnen. Such a shame. Max raced so well, great start, great restart at the safety car release, fantastic pace on this power track and then by this also not too great attempt (round the outside?!) by Bottas to loose 2 positions in the end.

[Spoutnik]

Which top speed during the race ?

Some went to 363km/h I think.

Yes I see that on some overtake with onboard footage but for example Lewis vs Kimi I wonder what was his top speed for example. Somebody have probably gone towards 370

[Restomaniac]

The track limits is the white line, not the grass. So Bottas went as far as he could. Verstappen squeezed him too much.

That´s what I was trying to say, but shorter and easier to understand

But it is not grass, it in fact just is tarmac, but painted green, they used it all the time in the qualy laps.

Bottas also wasn’t even passed yet, he has Merc Power, DRS, fresher tires, why not overtake like Hamilton did on Raikonnen. Such a shame. Max raced so well, great start, great restart at the safety car release, fantastic pace on this power track and then by this also not too great attempt (round the outside?!) by Bottas to loose 2 positions in the end.

He doesn’t need to be past he needs to be alongside. He was and then Verstappen decided he wanted to be on the 1 car width of track that Bottas was on.

[bonjon1979]

Whatever happened to vettels unsafe release? Was described as a slam dunk at the time. Any video of it?

Teds notebook has said that it was indeed a slam dunk unsafe release but because it was Sauber they have not called for an investigation (They get a lot of stuff from Ferrari) and the FIA/Stewards are happy to sweep it under the carpet.

Great, so just because they want to keep Vettel in Ferrari’s home race they suddenly ignore a rule that anyone else falls foul of they get a penalty. He should’ve got the standard drive through penalty and ended up considerably further back. What happens if ham has an unsafe release in the next race?

[Shrieker]

B...hurt Alonso and Verstappen fanbois you say ? Finally we're getting rid of the former; it will make F1 less toxic and better overall. Maybe some people will miss the fake drama he creates. As for the latter, he's proven he's incapable of learning from his mistakes. The only thing we can hope now is that he gets slammed with penalties for his antics; which I have no doubt he'll keep attempting.

Apparently your opinion is somehow hardwired .. pity.
Why not keep the 4 engines at bay in a testlab, rank them by an computer algoritm, fire them up every 2 wks for 1,5hrs, distribute the points afterwards, create a dumbass show around it, and call it a F1 race.

I just want to see racing, fights between angry drivers afterwards .. a little more passion instead of eloquent gizzles about entitlement.

But hey, who am I ...

Fair enough. But you know what the problem is ? His sense of entitlement. Sure, most champions have plenty, but they at least have something to show for it. He behaves like a complete megalomaniac. I won't even go into Fernando, I know I've already said a lot of harsh words (not that he doesn't deserve most of it). What Verstappen did today, he did in the past many, many times. His line of thought is about bullying other drivers so they don't attempt what they do in the future. He gives fake space on the outside and then always, always crowds them out of the road. As I said, it's not 'racing', he does it to bully them so they don't try it the next time.

He's trying to create a 'bad boy' reputation for himself so people are careful about him. And it looks incredibly fake and pretentious to people who watched the sport for a long time and know a thing or two. Makes him look pitiful. As for drama, sure if it's genuine it adds spice to the sport, but when it's fake it's just obnoxious. If someone likes fake drama, there's always WWE.

[Fulcrum]

I agree with your other points. Also, there was no need for Raikkonen to use his tyres so heavily after his first stop. Why were Ferrari advising Raikkonen so poorly? It felt like quite naive strategy on their part.

Yes, I agree fully. Ferrari found a way to literally screw Kimi over, yet again. Once the gap was below 22 seconds to Hamilton, it was a lost cause for him to pit and jump Kimi. Yet Ferrari had Kimi push push push for many laps after that. When in reality the only thing they needed to do was cool it off a bit and try look after the tires, especially the rears. They managed Raikkonen's race horribly and gave the win away to Hamilton on a silver platter.

I honestly think Ferrari had the faster car (albeit not by much), but their no 1 driver, and race management from the pits were not on par during the race.

The other thing I simply don't understand concerning the way Ferrari handled Kimi's race: Sebastian was already running the Soft tyre in the first stint. They would have seen the way it degraded when pushed hard. Seb had to pit much earlier than anticipated as a result of bad blistering, and yet they went and pitted Raikkonen early anyway. Did they think he was going to manage the tyres better?

It just seems like Ferrari went for the desperate move and stopped thinking clearly in the heat of the moment. Pressure and stress leading to poor decision-making.

[Brake Horse Power]

That´s what I was trying to say, but shorter and easier to understand

But it is not grass, it in fact just is tarmac, but painted green, they used it all the time in the qualy laps.

Bottas also wasn’t even passed yet, he has Merc Power, DRS, fresher tires, why not overtake like Hamilton did on Raikonnen. Such a shame. Max raced so well, great start, great restart at the safety car release, fantastic pace on this power track and then by this also not too great attempt (round the outside?!) by Bottas to loose 2 positions in the end.

He doesn’t need to be past he needs to be alongside. He was and then Verstappen decided he wanted to be on the 1 car width of track that Bottas was on.

Like Sieper said, the green area is used on other parts of the track as well. Why is it now not a valid part of the track? Of course it is controversial, but the move of VES was with an idea, I think it is too easy to state it is just a dumb move.

[Jackles-UK]

Far from Ferrari being victimised today I think they can think themselves VERY lucky:

1. Vettel was definitely to blame for the collision with Hamilton. He had a very similar collision with Bottas at Paul Richard and got a 5 second time penalty there (which was lenient even at the time, penalties of 10 seconds have been applied multiple times to other drivers), the same probably should have been applied today for consistency.

2. The unsafe release has basically been swept under the carpet because it was one of their B-teams that they hindered. You can be sure that if it was McLaren/Red Bull/Force India etc. that they endangered them they would have been slapped with ANOTHER 5 second time penalty (I believe that is the standard in-race unsafe release penalty).

3. Had Verstappen not been hit with his penalty they would have finished behind him and dropped back to 5th instead of 4th and would have lost a few points to boot.

Given the above it isn’t out of the question that Vettel could have been 15 seconds back with penalties (which on this occasion wouldn’t have affected his position with Grosjean so far back) and with Verstappen back in his rightful place ahead of him.

[Harvester]

I agree with your other points. Also, there was no need for Raikkonen to use his tyres so heavily after his first stop. Why were Ferrari advising Raikkonen so poorly? It felt like quite naive strategy on their part.

Yes, I agree fully. Ferrari found a way to literally screw Kimi over, yet again. Once the gap was below 22 seconds to Hamilton, it was a lost cause for him to pit and jump Kimi. Yet Ferrari had Kimi push push push for many laps after that. When in reality the only thing they needed to do was cool it off a bit and try look after the tires, especially the rears. They managed Raikkonen's race horribly and gave the win away to Hamilton on a silver platter.

I honestly think Ferrari had the faster car (albeit not by much), but their no 1 driver, and race management from the pits were not on par during the race.

The other thing I simply don't understand concerning the way Ferrari handled Kimi's race: Sebastian was already running the Soft tyre in the first stint. They would have seen the way it degraded when pushed hard. Seb had to pit much earlier than anticipated as a result of bad blistering, and yet they went and pitted Raikkonen early anyway. Did they think he was going to manage the tyres better?

It just seems like Ferrari went for the desperate move and stopped thinking clearly in the heat of the moment. Pressure and stress leading to poor decision-making.

They were afraid of Hamilton's undercut. There is no way they could defend against that unless they pit earlier or at the same time. When mercedes crew went out they simply had to pit Kimi.

[GrandAxe]

Isn't it a drive through for an unsafe release?