[ 2020 ] Mclaren F1 Team - Renault

[diffuser]

Let's correct the wrong assumption about 4th place and 3rd place!

MCL duly earned 3rd place with full remarks.
End of debate!

Nothing 'stolen' due to penalty points.
It's the other way....

Despite penalty points RP still manage to steal 4th place (and almost also 3rd place) with a fully 3D scanned/cloned car.

What would happen if other cloned parts would not be allowed and/or other illegal elements were identified (and not shoved under the rug)?

What are you going on about? Who said anything about stealing 3rd?

I have seen some YouTubers commenting that McLaren only got third because RP were docked those 15 points. I think that may be what they're responding to.

The "only" part isn't true, but the rest is. They still had the faster car and didn't execute. I mean you can add a bunch of excuses like both their drivers got covid or the Merc PU failed them. At the end of the day the "team" didn't execute. They didn't deliver to the abilities of the car. It had well over 15 more points than McLaren in her. McLaren did.

[Darth-Piekus]

I tend to disagree. The fastest car simply was Mclaren. Sure it didn't excelled in every domain but it was good to very good in every single race while Renault and RP could be very good to perfect in a race but bad to average in another race. It was a car that was good in the whole race, maybe not that fast in qualifying but the race give points not the qualifying. That is what makes Mclaren the 3rd fastest team this year. Execution alone doesn't mean anything if you don't have a car that is able to challenge.

[Ground Effect]

I tend to disagree. The fastest car simply was Mclaren. Sure it didn't excelled in every domain but it was good to very good in every single race while Renault and RP could be very good to perfect in a race but bad to average in another race. It was a car that was good in the whole race, maybe not that fast in qualifying but the race give points not the qualifying. That is what makes Mclaren the 3rd fastest team this year. Execution alone doesn't mean anything if you don't have a car that is able to challenge.

I tend to disagree, even Andreas Seidl admitted that McLaren didn’t have the 3rd fastest car. He has stated that multiple times, It’s simply a fact. Checo missed 2 races, DNF’d in 2 of the last 3 races and still finished 4th, 20 points ahead of Carlos.

[mwillems]

I tend to disagree. The fastest car simply was Mclaren. Sure it didn't excelled in every domain but it was good to very good in every single race while Renault and RP could be very good to perfect in a race but bad to average in another race. It was a car that was good in the whole race, maybe not that fast in qualifying but the race give points not the qualifying. That is what makes Mclaren the 3rd fastest team this year. Execution alone doesn't mean anything if you don't have a car that is able to challenge.

I tend to think you're often drunk.

[mwillems]

What are you going on about? Who said anything about stealing 3rd?

I have seen some YouTubers commenting that McLaren only got third because RP were docked those 15 points. I think that may be what they're responding to.

The "only" part isn't true, but the rest is. They still had the faster car and didn't execute. I mean you can add a bunch of excuses like both their drivers got covid or the Merc PU failed them. At the end of the day the "team" didn't execute. They didn't deliver to the abilities of the car. It had well over 15 more points than McLaren in her. McLaren did.

One of the main reasons, to my mind, is that they had one very capable driver, and one pretty useless driver. Had Stroll done his job third would have been wrapped up a long time ago. Yeah, he had bad luck, but he also threw away a lot of points.

[Darth-Piekus]

There are many things that you don't know about me. One of them is that I don't drink. What I say, I genuine believe. Everytime we were in front unless stars aligned we finished in front of them. Hell even times we were at the back we managed to pass them in the end. The diffeence between RP and our car is that our car was good in every single race. Their car was picking races.

I don't see why Mclaren's success should be downsized with excuses. We beat them in the races fair and square.

[diffuser]

What are you going on about? Who said anything about stealing 3rd?

I have seen some YouTubers commenting that McLaren only got third because RP were docked those 15 points. I think that may be what they're responding to.

The "only" part isn't true, but the rest is. They still had the faster car and didn't execute. I mean you can add a bunch of excuses like both their drivers got covid or the Merc PU failed them. At the end of the day the "team" didn't execute. They didn't deliver to the abilities of the car. It had well over 15 more points than McLaren in her. McLaren did.

Their drivers missed 3 races cause of covid. That really means 5 races cause the races they came back, they were both very weak.

So, I think they could have overcome the descrepency just not all three(penality and missed races).

[mwillems]

There are many things that you don't know about me. One of them is that I don't drink. What I say, I genuine believe. Everytime we were in front unless stars aligned we finished in front of them. Hell even times we were at the back we managed to pass them in the end. The diffeence between RP and our car is that our car was good in every single race. Their car was picking races.

I don't see why Mclaren's success should be downsized with excuses. We beat them in the races fair and square.

Nobody is downsizing anything, people just look at the reality and analyse it. We had a slower car but a better driver lineup.

RP threw away points, almost entirely via Stroll who underperformed (again). Obviously Perez wasn't affected by the same issues as he managed to finish fourth in the drivers standings, whereas stroll finished a huge 50 points behind him. It's not hard to see where the weak link is at RP, and long may it continue! Because no matter how fast the RP, until stroll gets it together, we have a chance to beat them again next year because one driver can not carry the team in a midfield battle.

"Drunk" was the projection of the general idea that you do not see straight, drunk on fanboyism for instance.

[Nivedanm]

There is no point in coming up with "what if"s and "what might have been"s.

If that's the case, it's also applicable to Mclaren.

For instance, we all clearly know Mclaren started the season with a car that was as fast as RP if not faster. RP got considerably faster only after both the teams started to bring their respective big upgrades. While RP will have the same car in 2021 and their upgrades could go as planned mostly, Mclaren had to revise their upgrade path vastly keeping 2021 in mind, where unlike every other team, they will have a different car. So, you can argue that Mclaren would have maintained the momentum if the original upgrade path could be followed. On the other hand, you can also say Perez's victory was fluke and Stroll's podium at Monza was luck (as they got a free tyre change during the red flag). You can also count the points Sainz lost in the pits a few times. It's all blind guess.

Call it luck or the opponents' bad luck or factors beyond anyone's control, the fact is McLaren won that place, and it's finished. Any argument that comes with guesswork is futile. Besides, even if RP had finished ahead of McLaren, there is no point in celebrating plagiarism.

I have seen some YouTubers commenting that McLaren only got third because RP were docked those 15 points. I think that may be what they're responding to.

The "only" part isn't true, but the rest is. They still had the faster car and didn't execute. I mean you can add a bunch of excuses like both their drivers got covid or the Merc PU failed them. At the end of the day the "team" didn't execute. They didn't deliver to the abilities of the car. It had well over 15 more points than McLaren in her. McLaren did.

Their drivers missed 3 races cause of covid. That really means 5 races cause the races they came back, they were both very weak.

So, I think they could have overcome the descrepency just not all three(penality and missed races).

[diffuser]

That is not right, it was known right from testing that RP was significantly faster. The expectation was that McLaren would out develop them and catch and pass them. Then covid hit and development went in different directions to deal with the change in regs.

This isn't a what if. It is a known fact, admitted by even by McLaren drivers, that RP was faster and therefore the favorites. We're really looking at what McLaren did right and what RP did wrong.

[the EDGE]

That is not right, it was known right from testing that RP was significantly faster. The expectation was that McLaren would out develop them and catch and pass them. Then covid hit and development went in different directions to deal with the change in regs.

This isn't a what if. It is a known fact, admitted by even by McLaren drivers, that RP was faster and therefore the favorites. We're really looking at what McLaren did right and what RP did wrong.

RP were significantly faster at some circuits, but for the record McLaren out-qualified them at 8 races and out-raced them at 7. Both cars had strengths & weaknesses and their fair share of both Good & bad luck. Hence why they were so close at the end of the season

[NathanOlder]

That is not right, it was known right from testing that RP was significantly faster. The expectation was that McLaren would out develop them and catch and pass them. Then covid hit and development went in different directions to deal with the change in regs.

This isn't a what if. It is a known fact, admitted by even by McLaren drivers, that RP was faster and therefore the favorites. We're really looking at what McLaren did right and what RP did wrong.

RP were significantly faster at some circuits, but for the record McLaren out-qualified them at 8 races and out-raced them at 7. Both cars had strengths & weaknesses and their fair share of both Good & bad luck. Hence why they were so close at the end of the season

The deciding factor really was the drivers,
2 drivers vs 1 when it comes to solid drivers. Stroll isnt too bad, he's just not as good as Norris. Sainz and Perez are fairly equal in my opinion

[the EDGE]

That is not right, it was known right from testing that RP was significantly faster. The expectation was that McLaren would out develop them and catch and pass them. Then covid hit and development went in different directions to deal with the change in regs.

This isn't a what if. It is a known fact, admitted by even by McLaren drivers, that RP was faster and therefore the favorites. We're really looking at what McLaren did right and what RP did wrong.

RP were significantly faster at some circuits, but for the record McLaren out-qualified them at 8 races and out-raced them at 7. Both cars had strengths & weaknesses and their fair share of both Good & bad luck. Hence why they were so close at the end of the season

The deciding factor really was the drivers,
2 drivers vs 1 when it comes to solid drivers. Stroll isnt too bad, he's just not as good as Norris. Sainz and Perez are fairly equal in my opinion

The battle was the highlight of 2020. With the change of drivers & engines next year it will be fascinating to see what happens. throw in Ferrari, Alpine & even AT, '21 is set for another thrilling instalment

[diffuser]

That is not right, it was known right from testing that RP was significantly faster. The expectation was that McLaren would out develop them and catch and pass them. Then covid hit and development went in different directions to deal with the change in regs.

This isn't a what if. It is a known fact, admitted by even by McLaren drivers, that RP was faster and therefore the favorites. We're really looking at what McLaren did right and what RP did wrong.

RP were significantly faster at some circuits, but for the record McLaren out-qualified them at 8 races and out-raced them at 7. Both cars had strengths & weaknesses and their fair share of both Good & bad luck. Hence why they were so close at the end of the season

Remember, RP drivers missed 3 races and weren't at 100% for 2 others. Add to that both Norris and Sainz said RP were faster.

[the EDGE]

That is not right, it was known right from testing that RP was significantly faster. The expectation was that McLaren would out develop them and catch and pass them. Then covid hit and development went in different directions to deal with the change in regs.

This isn't a what if. It is a known fact, admitted by even by McLaren drivers, that RP was faster and therefore the favorites. We're really looking at what McLaren did right and what RP did wrong.

RP were significantly faster at some circuits, but for the record McLaren out-qualified them at 8 races and out-raced them at 7. Both cars had strengths & weaknesses and their fair share of both Good & bad luck. Hence why they were so close at the end of the season

Remember, RP drivers missed 3 races and weren't at 100% for 2 others. Add to that both Norris and Sainz said RP were faster.

As I said... RP were significantly faster at some circuits, they were also beat fair & square at others. I seem to remember their SuperSub Hulk performed very well for them... their reliability unfortunately not so

RP had a good car, however it was still a midfield car. It did not have the pace of a leading pack car