2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[CjC]

When the Guardian writes pieces about F1 team principles, you know you're in the big time

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/artic ... ormula-one

The most telling part for me was Norris’ comment ‘95% of the people designing the car have been here 5 to 10 years’
He’s confirmed what I’ve been thinking over the last 12 months, what the hell have they been doing all these years??

10 years only puts you back to 2014. If you assume they only started working back then for McLaren, I don't remember any "big name" making headlines (apart from Peter Prodromou being snatched from RedBull), then it's not unreasonable to think these were people with not so much experience in the sport. 10 years is a significant amount of experience in any professional environment, and it will make pretty much anyone better at their job, whatever that job is.

Before 2014, McLaren had been bleeding people left right and center from the moment Mercedes decided to join F1 as a works team. Add to that a very very poor upper management, with certain people remaining responsible for too long after fumbling the bag multiple times. Also very poor infrastructure compared to the top teams at the time combined with the Honda slump.

There's really so much that went wrong with McLaren the past decade, it's difficult to sum it up in just a single comment on an online forum.

The long story short is,
Setting aside the much needed investments in terms of infrastructure that came from 2018-2019 and onwards, a Formula 1 team's ceiling (much like any business) is heavily decided by human resources and how well those resources are managed.

You could have 10 Neweys in a team, if you put them under a lower-caliber individual, you've just severely bottlenecked the talents in your team. And you know, engineers aren't exactly known for being super outspoken individuals. Most are there to just do their jobs much like you and me in every day life.

If you are confident that you have a better idea about a certain thing, but management decides to go in a completely different direction, most people will just go ahead and carry out with what management desires. It's one of the biggest limiters McLaren had to deal with over the last couple of years since their resurgence.

They really had quite some talented people working for them, but they were poorly managed and under-utilized.

And we're talking about a sport where margins are measured in tenths of seconds. It's just a bunch of little things stacked together that make the difference in the end. If your team is firing in all cylinders, then you're right there at the top. If part of it is slipping ever so slightly, it will be reflected on laptime.

Precisely. Up until 3 races ago I thought the same was happening at Mercedes in this current rule cycle = brain drain but it’s seems they had steadied their ship.

Anyway, I was looking more at the last 5 years. If I’m not mistaken last seasons development to become podium contenders came using the old infrastructure, maybe the new driver in loop simulator had been completed?

Like you say Peter Prod has been there for awhile now, if he’s has the same aero department give or take a few percent for the past 5 years then you have to assume they were capable of delivering a podium contending car then too- management has just held them back.

If you recall there was much optimism about the 2022 rule set- it was seen as an opportunity and if anything Mclaren took a step back in performance- to his credit Zak acted and with a bit of good fortune was able to make immediate changes and here we are now

I just have the sense of what might have been that’s all, no trolling, no slandering the team.

But that’s the past, looking forward Mwillems commented how it’s a shame that the new rule cycle in coming in so soon but as Lando confirmed, this current team, now equipped with the current infrastructure should at the very least stay a top 4 team and out of the midfield going into the next rule cycle.

[mwillems]

It's just that we will likely lose the close racing for a few years. That's why I'd like these rules a bit longer.

[venkyhere]

I dont know whether it's Norris the driver or the MCL38, ever since Miami, tyre life is amazing, Norris is consistently the guy with the biggest pace delta (w.r.t the next quickest guy), whether it's towards end of a tyre stint or at the start of a fresh stint. Inlaps and outlaps are tremendous.
 
Perhaps the biggest roadblock to Norris' greatness is Verstappen. With the #1 car, Redbull are like Real Madrid in Champions league - somehow finding a way. I hope Norris isn't too harsh on himself and doesn't suffer psychologically (it's been 3 races - Imola, Canada, Barcelona) and stokes the hunger inside even more. Austria is tailor made for an easy Norris victory. Plus, Verstappen has used up all his engines. I sincerely wish this turns into a proper title fight in the 2nd half of season. Even 80% of the ping-pong battle like 2021 will be excellent.

[Seerix]

I think the alternative strategy was covering RUS after his slow pit (lap 15). VER stopped soon after (lap 17). NOR would have ended up in P2 4.5s behind VER on the same tyre (new med). If he could close up to VER, there would have been an option for undercut on 2nd pitstop. Overtaking VER on track on the same tyre would probably not happen (?) as I am not sure McL was fast enough.
I do understand not covering RUS though and also wanting to use the soft tyre NOR has been saving behind RUS.

[CjC]

It's just that we will likely lose the close racing for a few years. That's why I'd like these rules a bit longer.

Correct….. but I bet you take it if Mclaren aced them for the start and enjoyed a healthy advantage for a few seasons

[FittingMechanics]

I think the alternative strategy was covering RUS after his slow pit (lap 15). VER stopped soon after (lap 17). NOR would have ended up in P2 4.5s behind VER on the same tyre (new med). If he could close up to VER, there would have been an option for undercut on 2nd pitstop. Overtaking VER on track on the same tyre would probably not happen (?) as I am not sure McL was fast enough.
I do understand not covering RUS though and also wanting to use the soft tyre NOR has been saving behind RUS.

That is a potential strategy but it is not a guaranteed victory.

With the alternate (extend) strategy they were building tire delta and they would gain a lot if there was a SC or VSC. We also did not have full understanding of tire degradation, it was possible there would be more tire deg and Verstappen loses a lot more time. With Norris being in favor of extending they went with the alternate route.

[mwillems]

It's just that we will likely lose the close racing for a few years. That's why I'd like these rules a bit longer.

Correct….. but I bet you take it if Mclaren aced them for the start and enjoyed a healthy advantage for a few seasons

I think that if we were running away with it, I'd be bored. I mean that. I feels so much better when you fight. Win or lose, it's the fight that brings everything alive and makes the win worth something.

I'm not so bothered about numbers of titles, I want the spectacle and for Mclaren to be in the fight.

[CMSMJ1]

Ladies, Gents - There is a little too much of the finger pointing and calling of one another "trolls" in these last couple of pages.

Less of that please - agree, or don't - but do it with respect.

thank you..

[Emag]

If you believe the graph, then Max's tempo drop was more intense. This is exactly the case when the tires are already worn out, and not when Max is supposedly saving the tires and the car. When they save the tires, they drive at the same pace.

https://i.ibb.co/Dt5PzFz/4-A4-DEB2-E-86 ... DC42-C.jpg

Also, Lando's first stint is compromised behind George + the extension while everyone else was on newer tires.
First part of the second stint was also somewhat compromised because it took a couple of laps to get through Sainz and both Mercedes.

The car was easily the quickest here. On comparable conditions (both on clean air and on the same tires), Lando had 2-3 tenths on Leclerc, and 1-2 tenths on Max.

[LionsHeart]

If you believe the graph, then Max's tempo drop was more intense. This is exactly the case when the tires are already worn out, and not when Max is supposedly saving the tires and the car. When they save the tires, they drive at the same pace.

https://i.ibb.co/Dt5PzFz/4-A4-DEB2-E-86 ... DC42-C.jpg

Also, Lando's first stint is compromised behind George + the extension while everyone else was on newer tires.
First part of the second stint was also somewhat compromised because it took a couple of laps to get through Sainz and both Mercedes.

The car was easily the quickest here. On comparable conditions (both on clean air and on the same tires), Lando had 2-3 tenths on Leclerc, and 1-2 tenths on Max.

Maybe. I am happy with Lando's race pace. All this sets a good mood for future races. And by the way, someone said after qualifying that perhaps Red Bull will have more pace in the race, like, maybe they sacrificed a little pace in qualifying and that's why Max lost to Lando. But the race clearly showed that McLaren is fast both in qualifying and in the race. I remember a couple of past seasons, when Andreas Seidl said that their car was good in the race, but very little pace in qualifying. Then they made updates, adjustments to the settings and after a while the car seemed to become faster in qualifying, but began to lose pace in the race. These are my observations over several seasons. A bright moment was the 2023 season, when the car was fast on one lap, but this was due to the fact that fresh soft tires on one lap completely leveled out the shortcomings of the chassis in slow corners.

Just one package of upgrades allowed McLaren to immediately enter the fight for victories. It may seem strange, but we should be pleased. Engineers, mechanics and other professions where people do quality work bear fruit. And it is nice to see how the updated infrastructure immediately allows for a qualitative step forward. And it is good that in the next two weeks we have two more race weekends. In Austria and Silverstone, the downforce package will be about the same as in Australia, if we remember last season. And this rear wing is very effective for McLaren. So we can expect a continuation of the fight for victories. I hope Ferrari can get into this fight. The high density of results obliges the drivers to give their maximum, because the influence of driving in percentage terms increases sharply.

[BMMR61]

Just to clarify my position, I have been a keen follower of Oscar since he signed for the team. However I am happy to "call balls and strikes" as they are and Oscar had one of his poorest weekends, though I'd dispute it was his worst. Since Silverstone he has been getting plenty of hype and had some very good results late last year as well as a couple of howlers. I am not trying to say in any way Oscar was close to Lando this weekend, he most certainly wasn't. But....

I just studied a rerun of the race looking at Oscar's situation. In the first stint both our drivers struggled to get by drivers who were effectively depleting their tyres to stay in front - Russell and Gasly - who actually spoiled their own races by over aggressive on the softs resulting in early stops (laps 14 & 15 respectively). Lando got separated from Max as we know but Oscar dropped a lot of time to Charles and Lewis. This period (and Oscar's poor qualifying) probably contributed to us losing both the win, and a stronger finishing position from Oscar.

On Oscar's pace, he kept his first set of softs alive for 21 laps. That's a good sign of his growing ability to manage pace, wouldn't you agree? Better still was his final stint on softs. He pitted with 20 laps to go and when Leclerc exited on his final set of softs a lap later Oscar was around 12.5 seconds behind. In the final 20 laps (with Charles hustling to catch Russell) Oscar ran the same pace, finishing 11 seconds behind with a marginally faster fastest lap. In fact his fastest times were within a tenth of those of Max, Lewis and Charles. However, Lando's fastest lap was nearly 0.7 faster than anyone else!

An incredible drive by Lando and it gives us all great excitement for the Red Bull Ring and Silverstone - for both our drivers.

[BMMR61]

If you believe the graph, then Max's tempo drop was more intense. This is exactly the case when the tires are already worn out, and not when Max is supposedly saving the tires and the car. When they save the tires, they drive at the same pace.

https://i.ibb.co/Dt5PzFz/4-A4-DEB2-E-86 ... DC42-C.jpg

Also, Lando's first stint is compromised behind George + the extension while everyone else was on newer tires.
First part of the second stint was also somewhat compromised because it took a couple of laps to get through Sainz and both Mercedes.

The car was easily the quickest here. On comparable conditions (both on clean air and on the same tires), Lando had 2-3 tenths on Leclerc, and 1-2 tenths on Max.

Maybe. I am happy with Lando's race pace. All this sets a good mood for future races. And by the way, someone said after qualifying that perhaps Red Bull will have more pace in the race, like, maybe they sacrificed a little pace in qualifying and that's why Max lost to Lando. But the race clearly showed that McLaren is fast both in qualifying and in the race. I remember a couple of past seasons, when Andreas Seidl said that their car was good in the race, but very little pace in qualifying. Then they made updates, adjustments to the settings and after a while the car seemed to become faster in qualifying, but began to lose pace in the race. These are my observations over several seasons. A bright moment was the 2023 season, when the car was fast on one lap, but this was due to the fact that fresh soft tires on one lap completely leveled out the shortcomings of the chassis in slow corners.

Just one package of upgrades allowed McLaren to immediately enter the fight for victories. It may seem strange, but we should be pleased. Engineers, mechanics and other professions where people do quality work bear fruit. And it is nice to see how the updated infrastructure immediately allows for a qualitative step forward. And it is good that in the next two weeks we have two more race weekends. In Austria and Silverstone, the downforce package will be about the same as in Australia, if we remember last season. And this rear wing is very effective for McLaren. So we can expect a continuation of the fight for victories. I hope Ferrari can get into this fight. The high density of results obliges the drivers to give their maximum, because the influence of driving in percentage terms increases sharply.

Good observations. Quite how McLaren have kept the pace unlocked by the Miami upgrade, without any really significant upgrades while their opponents have all talked up their upgrades, it's a surprise. It would be normal to expect the Miami upgrades to be better bedded in at Imola the following race but how much optimisation is possible? It seems to point to a very good understanding of the package, as we have shared here before. The Piastri Barcelona situation is the first head scratcher - a conundrum of what happened? I would offer this possible theory - the circuit and variable wind strengths and directions caught a few drivers out, most noticeably Albon who thought his car was broken. Lets hope it was a one off as we need Oscar to be bringing the points and supporting Lando strategically in the coming races.

[Venturiation]

Are there any close upgrades planned?

[Emag]

Are there any close upgrades planned?

Hard to know what the timeline is like when it comes to upgrades.

Andrea Stella said after Canada that they will start bringing parts the moment they're ready in the upcoming races. But they haven't disclosed what upcoming races means. Also, there won't be another "big" upgrade package like what they brought in Miami this season. It's just about optimizing things and bringing small parts to the car as soon as they're ready from the factory.

Zak mentioned after Barcelona that the entire team would be focused on Austria now, except for the factory, which was focused on getting upgrades ready for Silverstone. I don't know if that means there will be nothing at Austria, but I think it's reasonable to expect some things for Silverstone at least.

[LionsHeart]

Also, Lando's first stint is compromised behind George + the extension while everyone else was on newer tires.
First part of the second stint was also somewhat compromised because it took a couple of laps to get through Sainz and both Mercedes.

The car was easily the quickest here. On comparable conditions (both on clean air and on the same tires), Lando had 2-3 tenths on Leclerc, and 1-2 tenths on Max.

Maybe. I am happy with Lando's race pace. All this sets a good mood for future races. And by the way, someone said after qualifying that perhaps Red Bull will have more pace in the race, like, maybe they sacrificed a little pace in qualifying and that's why Max lost to Lando. But the race clearly showed that McLaren is fast both in qualifying and in the race. I remember a couple of past seasons, when Andreas Seidl said that their car was good in the race, but very little pace in qualifying. Then they made updates, adjustments to the settings and after a while the car seemed to become faster in qualifying, but began to lose pace in the race. These are my observations over several seasons. A bright moment was the 2023 season, when the car was fast on one lap, but this was due to the fact that fresh soft tires on one lap completely leveled out the shortcomings of the chassis in slow corners.

Just one package of upgrades allowed McLaren to immediately enter the fight for victories. It may seem strange, but we should be pleased. Engineers, mechanics and other professions where people do quality work bear fruit. And it is nice to see how the updated infrastructure immediately allows for a qualitative step forward. And it is good that in the next two weeks we have two more race weekends. In Austria and Silverstone, the downforce package will be about the same as in Australia, if we remember last season. And this rear wing is very effective for McLaren. So we can expect a continuation of the fight for victories. I hope Ferrari can get into this fight. The high density of results obliges the drivers to give their maximum, because the influence of driving in percentage terms increases sharply.

Good observations. Quite how McLaren have kept the pace unlocked by the Miami upgrade, without any really significant upgrades while their opponents have all talked up their upgrades, it's a surprise. It would be normal to expect the Miami upgrades to be better bedded in at Imola the following race but how much optimisation is possible? It seems to point to a very good understanding of the package, as we have shared here before. The Piastri Barcelona situation is the first head scratcher - a conundrum of what happened? I would offer this possible theory - the circuit and variable wind strengths and directions caught a few drivers out, most noticeably Albon who thought his car was broken. Lets hope it was a one off as we need Oscar to be bringing the points and supporting Lando strategically in the coming races.

It is difficult for me to judge why Oscar was inferior the whole weekend, why his pace was worse than Lando's on all three days. Oscar has already spoken about this after the race. I think the team will sort it out. In the race, his pace was inferior to Lando's by the same amount as Oscar was inferior to Lando's best lap in the second practice. This difference is 3 tenths of a second. And this is the only point where Oscar was able to get the closest. On the other days of the session, it was more difficult for him. Perhaps non-optimal settings, balance and other factors. After all, no one provided telemetry where it would be possible to figure out where exactly Oscar was inferior to Lando on Friday and Saturday. Where exactly Oscar is losing time. This could be some kind of answer for us.

Regarding your message above about Oscar's overall race pace and his pace relative to Leclerc: he did his job well. And the team, as with Lando, gave him a strategy that allowed him to be faster on the second and third stints. This allowed him to have fresher tires relative to his rivals, to catch up with them and overtake them. Oscar passed both Alpine drivers, which means he did the minimum program. Hoping that Oscar would overtake the Ferrari drivers was quite optimistic, given his overall pace this race weekend. Of course, I expected that he would be able to compete with them. But alas, we have what we have. Nothing critically terrible happened. Oscar brought important points to the constructors' cup and that is useful in the future. I hope that the team will quickly figure out what the reasons were for the lack of pace. It is too early to sound the alarm over one race.