Formula E

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Formula E

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Apart from the, slightly expectable, quality issues regarding the technical side
for the F-E vehicles, the net result of the first ever Formula-E race is highly negative
and in need of immediate attention, as safety levels are far below acceptable point.

Obviously the highlight of the grandprix was the serious incident between the cars of
Nick Heidfeld and Nicolas Prost. Apart from the fact both drivers came out without
injuries - special attention to the severe and extremely violent crash of Heidfeld,
one might get the wrong idea on Formula E being 'safe'.

Though it is true that mechanics and safety rules have done a remarkably well job of
being able to have a driver come unscathed out of such and extreme and violent crash,
there is still a huge amount of safety failures to be taken into account.

there are improvements to be made noticing the fragility of the vehicle suspension
upon contact, and so for the transmission.

What is to be adressed profoundly is the organisation of the race itself, and especially, the quality,
presense and activeness of the marshalls.

criticism is aimed at the visibility of flags controlled by the marshalls. On warm-up, the car
of Karun Chandhok had a malfunction and could not move. There was a tiny movement of the yellow flag,
which should have been waved prominantly. It was hardly visible and it was like the marshalls there just
didn't know or didn't feel like taking an effort.

This creates potentially dangerous situations, and during race there were little yellow flags visible
despite several moments it should have been absolutely visible, especcialy on the race end incident.

Curbstones were dangerously high, which caused the more or less 'minor' incident (race contact) to turn
into a severly dangerous potentially lethal crash by making the car get airborn into the barriers.

these very barriers are positioned way to close or too tight in certain corners, creating a
problem of needing extremely sharp corrections, and a risk of collision pile-up of cars coming to a
halt due to possibile crashes or mistakes.

imho biggest fail on the entire race was at race end, i was in shock of the I3 driver.

The highly risky and absolutely insane driving of the BMW i3 driver immediately after race finish,
drove within the pack of F-E cars - totally unacceptable and most of all totally unneccesary.
Insane if you ask me and potentially dangerous. There was zero need for this and it might even
cause accidents.

The I3 driver should have remained behind the entire pack cruising untill all drivers returned to the
pits/parc ferme.

It's like the cars themselves have been manufactured well enough safety-wise, but apart from that,
it's horrible.

I've enjoyed A1GP of years ago a million times better.

As for the sound, well, yeah don't know what to make of it. Sky commentary was flat and effortless,
missing emotion. The car sound itself really didn't do it any good.
All it was to me was boys playing with lifesize RC cars sitting in the car itself instead of with the remote
control, and it sounded the same, too.

It's like a toy race. It needs to ditch that image hastily.
I don't really see the issue on being a spec series at start, because all start is difficult. Thus it seems more
like 'practice' and 'lab work' rather then actual racing.

It was 'competitive' because all cars were the same, yes. So to me there is little difference to walking into
any given indoor kart racing track and taking a look at that.

So - overall verdict: hugely disappointing, though not expected otherwise due to the 'previews'.

What needs to change:

- wheels. Better bigger tires and either a smaller wheel size or atleast a bit fatter tires.
- wheel 'wells' looks silly and stupid. It's formula class, open-wheeler. I don't care about aero benefit, fix that with power.
it makes the cars look odd while in al fairness, the cars themselves don't look that bad at all.
- replaceable battery pack. how about a bottom 'skidplate' board that houses the batteries and you 'just' lift the car up,
a mechanic uses a device to remove the batterypack, and replace them with fresh ones.
meanwhile tires can be replaced.
- power. seriously underpowered cars. we have several topics here that prove they can be humongeously more powerfull
with virtually no loss. Just look at the LM prototype full-electric car that gets charged without cables.
- fragility. cars are too fragile, point. They are very heavy due to the batteries, but can't take the slightest hit.
It doesn't need to be immortal, but let's look at f.e. how strong Williams suspension is (maldonado-proof). Additionally,
the transmission is below average.
- Needs way more investment. Looks cheap and hobby-ish. Not serious and the future. Could be, but not like this.
- Needs to ditch the spec-concept and become full-homebuilt team effort. Bring in BMW, AUDI/PORSCHE, RENAULT, etc.
to make their very own cars. BMW has some good experience with their i-cars and audi with e-tron. Surely this is a great
testbed and base for development for road cars, like F1 has been before.
- Circuits are a laugh and safety is seriously unacceptable. Curbs as high as mountains and corners tighter then a backstreet
alley in italy. Not good. Dangerous and prevents overtakes.
- Sound. understandable, but needs improvement. Not artificial, that's not the way to go. But there surely must be an
alternative. Or perhaps artificial sound is ok, but it needs to house a jetfighter-style sound. i dunno, i think this is the
biggest problem for electric car racing, atleast in a formula class. it lacks entertainment and emotion. for LM, that's not
such an issue. Formula? yes, huge problem.
- overall organisation. Can't find many positive points here. It's amateuristic. Just copy the F1-seriousness and you're done.

I understand it's a young series but it's rubbish for now. I'd rather see a race with R8 e-trons, i8's and tesla's instead of this.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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FW17
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: Formula E

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They should have included Macau GP in the calendar along with goodwood

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FW17
171
Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: Formula E

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Manoah2u wrote:- replaceable battery pack. how about a bottom 'skidplate' board that houses the batteries and you 'just' lift the car up,
a mechanic uses a device to remove the batterypack, and replace them with fresh ones.
meanwhile tires can be replaced.

They could make the races slightly longer make the race with 2 stops with a more powerful race engine. 79 mph avg speed does not sound great. Rather than having the battery pack located at the center of the car and accessed through the bottom, i would suggest the battery on the side pods on either side of the chassis. The radiator could be centrally located behind the driver. Could be a very short wheel base car well suited for a twisty race track.

Other option would be a redesign of the circuits to be a shorter lot more twisty like a ROC or rally cross which could highlight the strengths of the car. They could make the car front wing stronger to allow bump and run.

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Andres125sx
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Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Formula E

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Next day feelings:

- FE main problem right now is battery, so you have to take one of these two routes. Low power for longer races, or short race for higher power. IMO races should be shorter, people would enjoy a shorter race with more power/faster cars more than current format. Top speed was too low, and this is racing, people will complain a lot more about slow cars than about short races. Once energy density is improved races could be longer, but meanwhile faster cars would be much better. Anycase it was just first race, and track didn´t help at this aspect with only short straights after slow corners. We´ll see next race

- Sound. We need to get used to something this new. Comments like they look like RC cars are normal, that´s what we know with that sound so the analogy is inevitable. If they´d be quicker than ICEs I´m sure people would not complain about sound, but this is what we have at the moment. It´s just a matter of time

- Organisation. Amateur, I agree. But it was China, first chinese F1 GP also looked amateur at some aspects, with marshals who didn´t know what to do with crashed cars


There´re lots of things to improve, but we should be patient. There´s a huge margin to improve too, it´s been just first race of first seasson, and even when we all tend to compare with any other competition that actually is not fair. Any new ICE competition has a lot of references for his first seasson, so they don´t need to figure out what´s better or the route they should take. Not the case with FE, they need to figure it out for theirselves.

Like any other experimentation procedure, it´s a trial and error procedure. Nobody said it was going to compete with any other stablished competition right now, it was known there would be problems and a lot of things to change, improve and implement before competing with any ICE

But that´s also the beauty of the championship, it´s so new the margin to improve is huge, every aspect of the champioship can be improved, from the cars to the event format. That´s refreshing by itself

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Andres125sx
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Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Formula E

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http://www.fiaformulae.com/en/news/2014 ... -cars.aspx
Using a single generator, all 40 cars can be charged from flat to full in 50 minutes and with automated precise power controls, can be relied upon to ensure no car is given additional power.

Glycerine is a carbon-neutral fuel; safe, odourless, non-toxic and water soluble and an abundant by-product of biodiesel production. Aquafuel's technology allows glycerine to replace diesel, increasing efficiency and dramatically cutting pollutants such as NOx and particulates by over 90% - easily meeting California’s tough Tier 4 emission standards.
Last edited by Andres125sx on 27 Sep 2014, 13:58, edited 1 time in total.

notsofast
notsofast
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Joined: 10 Oct 2012, 02:56

Re: Formula E

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Sorry if this has already been discussed. Just noticed that each car gets 5 front tires and 5 rear tires per race day. Any comments on why it is appropriate to only change 1 tire in Formula E whereas tires in F1 are always changed in complete sets of four?

theblackangus
theblackangus
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Joined: 02 Aug 2007, 01:03

Re: Formula E

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Andres125sx wrote:Next day feelings:
- Sound. We need to get used to something this new. Comments like they look like RC cars are normal, that´s what we know with that sound so the analogy is inevitable. If they´d be quicker than ICEs I´m sure people would not complain about sound, but this is what we have at the moment. It´s just a matter of time
I agree with all of your points except this one. I'm not one to complain about sound, yeah I like the sound of a good v6/v8/v10/v12 or even the quiet thrum of the desiel lemans prototypes. I liked the sound of the Formula E cars from the initial youtube videos. However when I watched the race on a good TV with good speakers the sound was overwhelming (much like being next to a 20k rpm v10 when its reving, but just quieter) to the point where it just hurt my ears. Certain camera/mic positions were ok, but many were very harsh on the ears the way a non-electric motor just isn't. I don't mind quiet cars I mind the harsh sound.
I hope either via sound engineering (in production) or engineering of the actual electric motor itself the sound can be made less harsh.

theblackangus
theblackangus
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Joined: 02 Aug 2007, 01:03

Re: Formula E

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notsofast wrote:Sorry if this has already been discussed. Just noticed that each car gets 5 front tires and 5 rear tires per race day. Any comments on why it is appropriate to only change 1 tire in Formula E whereas tires in F1 are always changed in complete sets of four?
I read this rule and thought about it as well. I *believe*, since they are required to bring tires from the previous race this allows them to choose the best of the "left overs" to bring to the next race.

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Andres125sx
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Joined: 13 Aug 2013, 10:15
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Formula E

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theblackangus wrote:I agree with all of your points except this one. I'm not one to complain about sound, yeah I like the sound of a good v6/v8/v10/v12 or even the quiet thrum of the desiel lemans prototypes. I liked the sound of the Formula E cars from the initial youtube videos. However when I watched the race on a good TV with good speakers the sound was overwhelming (much like being next to a 20k rpm v10 when its reving, but just quieter) to the point where it just hurt my ears. Certain camera/mic positions were ok, but many were very harsh on the ears the way a non-electric motor just isn't. I don't mind quiet cars I mind the harsh sound.
I hope either via sound engineering (in production) or engineering of the actual electric motor itself the sound can be made less harsh.
I´m not sure if I get it, but I think you mean the tone was too high and even when it was not high in volume it was harsh on your ears?

Did you test with different modes? There usually are different modes: spectacles, sports, cinema, music... and they handle different tones in different ways

They must be using sensible microphones to record as much of the sound as they can, not an expert about sound, but that could be a problem. When you hear something through TV low tones almost dissapear, while high ones are much easier to replicate. I guess they (TVs) also need some experience for a good FE broadcasting, there were many things they could have done much better, as camera positioning

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Formula E

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I don't mind the speed. They have to start somewhere.

For those who are quick to bash the performance of these cars, the hope is that this series accelerates development of battery and motor technology to give better and better power to weight. Yo never know what the future holds, Formula e cars might be as fast as formula 1 sooner than we think.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028

mzso
mzso
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Joined: 05 Apr 2014, 14:52

Re: Formula E

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theblackangus wrote: What can be done about the sound? It was a serious turn off, and this is coming from a guy who is OK with the new v6's. (Definitely not the preferred sound but I can live with them.)
I mean seriously, I don't know what it sounded like in person but that was really to the point of unpleasant to me. My wife could said - That sounds like nails on a chalk board to me, and I tend to agree.
If anyone that was there and could comment on the live sound it would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

I do hope for the best and I want to watch the series but the TV stations or someone need to mix the car sound down or trim off the top 30% of the noise frequency range or something....
It's the whine of the reduction gears. If they used direct drive cars there wouldn't be any such sounds. I think they should by the way.
eg:


Belatti wrote:Not necessarily, you can use front electric rotors to capture energy and then disconnect them automatically for traction.
And carry it as dead weight? No point in that. 4WD troque vectoring, recharging is a useful thing to develop/perfect. And it would give the series more of an identity.
Last edited by mzso on 14 Sep 2014, 23:50, edited 1 time in total.

Trocola
Trocola
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Joined: 25 Jan 2012, 19:22
Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: Formula E

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PlatinumZealot wrote:I don't mind the speed. They have to start somewhere.

For those who are quick to bash the performance of these cars, the hope is that this series accelerates development of battery and motor technology to give better and better power to weight. Yo never know what the future holds, Formula e cars might be as fast as formula 1 sooner than we think.
That's exactly what I think

This has been the first race on a completly new formula. Of course the show can be improve, but I do not think that saying it is rubbish when it was the first race is the right thing to do.

Better batteries, better engines, better aero... Formula E has a great future ahead of it

mzso
mzso
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Joined: 05 Apr 2014, 14:52

Re: Formula E

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Manoah2u wrote:...
On the other hand they sent in a safetycar for nothing...
these very barriers are positioned way to close or too tight in certain corners, creating a
problem of needing extremely sharp corrections, and a risk of collision pile-up of cars coming to a
halt due to possibile crashes or mistakes.
Well, what do you expect from a street circuit? At you don't have the crappy habitual driving outside the track like in F1.

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SectorOne
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Joined: 26 May 2013, 09:51

Re: Formula E

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Nice tattoo,

Image
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

piast9
piast9
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Joined: 16 Mar 2010, 00:39

Re: Formula E

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^^ Is that Quick Nick's impression after the race? :D