Alonso's Crash

[Tim.Wright]

Ron has never been one to cut to the point in a concise way



Actually, I just posted that to show shuey driving a commodore...

[Hail22]

Indefinite deadline for Alonso crash probe, Source:


http://www.smh.com.au/sport/motorsport/ ... 42q80.html

[wesley123]

So you are just releasing half of the numbers? That doesn't give the full picture. Plus, it opens the door for everyone to say that McLaren is hiding stuff.

With the selected pieces i can easily prove or disprove the wind theory.
It opens the door LESS because you actually have something tangible to work with.

Sure you can, and everyone else can support their wildest theories as well.

Quite certain a press release had already explained what suspected the cause of the crash(Heavy winds)

And neither the FIA nor the GPDA believest that story so they all demanded real answers instead.

Which I'm sure will come.

But of course, to you it´s enough, in which case this whole thread is more or less useless by now since you know the cause and Alonso is in perfect health at this time of writing.

Accidents happen and with peculiar accidents reports will be made. It's of no use to talk about the wildest theories possible without the proper knowledge to support it.

Except Telemetry wont show the effects and will only open the door wide for conspiracy theories.

Now you´re even contradicting yourself.
According to Mclaren (which you believe) they saw in the telemetry it was a gust of wind, they saw he ran on the astro-turf.

But now you are saying telemetry won´t show the effect. What´s it gonna be?

Interpretation. Plus, if you take away half of the telemetry it'll hardly be a full picture.

It is.

For you. Not for FIA, not for GPDA, not for ex-F1 drivers, not for a large portion of this forum.
For you this is all covered already, your vicinity to this thread is by your own definitions, useless.
You got the cake and you´re eating it, no need to be in here anymore.

And the answers will come in a report. Now here everyone is trying to fuel their wildest theories.

No it wont. It only opens the door for everyone to back up their theories with data they know absolutely nothing about.

Yea it will. No telemetry is not rocket science like you like to believe it is.
Especially the selected telemetry pieces i proposed.

It sure isn't, but it still requires you to have proper knowledge to interpret it, a knowledge I'm certain few on here have. And even with that, to conclude things it requires comparison to normal operation, which we don't have.

Telemetry sure isn't rocket science, but neither is it something a 3 year old can do. It still requires proper knowledge.

All Telemetry will show is if something in the car itself caused the crash, which will answer nothing in the whole discussion

Sure, let´s just forget it will completely disprove the Mclaren statement first of all.

And then what? That will answer very little.

Second of all you´ll get the cause because now you really know what happened.

Except Telemetry wont show the human part of it. Sure, it can show steering input, but it can't tell if Alonso was singing Spanish songs or not.

because it doesn't answer, nor give any signs towards why Alonso was in the hospital for so long and misses the Australian GP.

Why are people still talking about the his days in hospital? The guy is completely fine right now, training hard for Malaysia.

Quite sure that still is an important part of the puzzle; Alonso's well-being.

only releasing a few numbers tells nothing. Imagine if doctors did such a thing, sounds pretty bad doesn't it?

A doctor is a completely different thing to an F1 team trying to protect their domain.

Except it follows the same point; Releasing half an image doesn't give a full picture.

The same F1 team that has been caught red handed lying before.

Teams "bend the truth"? No, really? Why would they ever do such a thing! It's not like McLaren is looking for a title sponsor and can't really use bad PR, is it?

[SectorOne]

Sure you can, and everyone else can support their wildest theories as well.

wrong.

Accidents happen and with peculiar accidents reports will be made. It's of no use to talk about the wildest theories possible without the proper knowledge to support it.

Which is where telemetry comes in, since it´s the same thing used by the team itself to produce their press release.

Interpretation. Plus, if you take away half of the telemetry it'll hardly be a full picture.

Now you´re just acting stupid.

And the answers will come in a report. Now here everyone is trying to fuel their wildest theories.

Which is already out, which again makes your visit to this thread completely useless. You still around for some reason?
Maybe it´s to just drag on a discussion where you have contradicted yourself in multiple times.

It sure isn't, but it still requires you to have proper knowledge to interpret it, a knowledge I'm certain few on here have. And even with that, to conclude things it requires comparison to normal operation, which we don't have.

I guess you have never played with ATLAS or anything similar like Motec.
It´s ridiculously easy to interpret data for this particular situation.
You are seriously over-complicating things just to have something to discuss about which i´m now convinced is the goal here.

Telemetry sure isn't rocket science, but neither is it something a 3 year old can do. It still requires proper knowledge.

You only need to know what the graphs show to have an understanding of what happened.
Even a three year old can see in the data if Alonso simply turned right straight into the wall or if he had an oversteer moment, trying to save the car. Again, you think telemetry is some kind of black magic in this case.
It´s very selected pieces of data that a retarded cockroach could interpret and visually "see" what happened prior to Alonso hitting the wall.

And then what? That will answer very little.

It will answer alot, it will first say Mclaren´s theory is wrong, then tell us what really happened.

Except Telemetry wont show the human part of it. Sure, it can show steering input, but it can't tell if Alonso was singing Spanish songs or not.

I don´t need to know if Alonso was singing spanish or not.
I´m just gonna find out if the fault was at Alonso or the Mclaren.

You see i don´t need to know if it was a mini-stroke or epileptic moment that caused Alonso to turn straight into the wall, i just need to know the fault was with him.

Another one where you just drag on the discussion because you are bored or something.

Quite sure that still is an important part of the puzzle; Alonso's well-being.

But he´s totally fine, another useless discussion point i have to reply to..

Except it follows the same point; Releasing half an image doesn't give a full picture.

Of course it does. I´ll know whether the car put him in the wall or not.

Teams "bend the truth"? No, really? Why would they ever do such a thing! It's not like McLaren is looking for a title sponsor and can't really use bad PR, is it?

Are you really that dense? And still you say a PR release is better then actual telemetry.

You´ve contradicted yourself so many times now and going straight to the ignore button, i can´t be bothered with such dense objects.

[radosav]

I think he is getting better, some good reflexes , at least much better than mine.

[TAG]

After today's qualifying results, Alonso's doctor recommends he stay out until after the August break, just to be on the safe side.

[SectorOne]

After today's qualifying results, Alonso's doctor recommends he stay out until after the August break, just to be on the safe side.

=D>

[Juzh]

He ain't missing much.

[Thefuelman]

After today's qualifying results, Alonso's doctor recommends he stay out until after the August break, just to be on the safe side.

=D>

You know what, its tounge in cheek but I can see his comeback being strung out after what I saw today. Remember how tough it was to get schumacher back in the Ferrari in 1999 after Irvine's exploits? Fernando appears a far for emotional creature than schuey was in those days aswell so im sure the thought of not just being anihilated by Hamiltons Mercedes but lapped multiple times by Vettel and Raikkonen in ferraris over the course of a race distance may bring some residual ill effects of his testing accident to the fore. It may be safe for him to return for the European season. [-o<

[wesley123]

Sure you can, and everyone else can support their wildest theories as well.

wrong.

Not really. Telemetry can show many things, what it can also show is great "proof" for people misinterpreting telemetry.

Interpretation. Plus, if you take away half of the telemetry it'll hardly be a full picture.

Now you´re just acting stupid.

Having half the information doesn't give you the full picture, it's as simple as that.

And the answers will come in a report. Now here everyone is trying to fuel their wildest theories.

Which is already out, which again makes your visit to this thread completely useless. You still around for some reason?
Maybe it´s to just drag on a discussion where you have contradicted yourself in multiple times.

I like the discussion.

It sure isn't, but it still requires you to have proper knowledge to interpret it, a knowledge I'm certain few on here have. And even with that, to conclude things it requires comparison to normal operation, which we don't have.

I guess you have never played with ATLAS or anything similar like Motec.
It´s ridiculously easy to interpret data for this particular situation.
You are seriously over-complicating things just to have something to discuss about which i´m now convinced is the goal here.

I played around with motec a little yes, it sure is easy to read data, but then to properly interpret that data you need to know why such data is showing and what that relates to. I found it extremely easy to read the data, to then know what the hell it actually means was a whole different story.

Telemetry sure isn't rocket science, but neither is it something a 3 year old can do. It still requires proper knowledge.

You only need to know what the graphs show to have an understanding of what happened.

You also need to know what those graphs actually mean.

Even a three year old can see in the data if Alonso simply turned right straight into the wall or if he had an oversteer moment, trying to save the car. Again, you think telemetry is some kind of black magic in this case.

In which you are trying to isolate a single situation. What if neither was the case? You seem awfully certain about your case, which is where the errors come in.

Someone who is incredibly certain that Alonso received an electric shock will simply see a slight change in voltage and say "look, voltage changed, Alonso received an electric shock!". You see where I'm going with this?

And then what? That will answer very little.

It will answer alot, it will first say Mclaren´s theory is wrong, then tell us what really happened.

You clearly don't believe McLaren, so why would you believe half their telemetry with which they clearly have had to screw around with to provide such information?

Except Telemetry wont show the human part of it. Sure, it can show steering input, but it can't tell if Alonso was singing Spanish songs or not.

I don´t need to know if Alonso was singing spanish or not.
I´m just gonna find out if the fault was at Alonso or the Mclaren.

And how do you know if the fault was with Alonso? Like said, Telemetry doesn't show human factors.

You see i don´t need to know if it was a mini-stroke or epileptic moment that caused Alonso to turn straight into the wall, i just need to know the fault was with him.

Actually, him having such a medical condition would be a rather important part of the crash.

Another one where you just drag on the discussion because you are bored or something.

Except it follows the same point; Releasing half an image doesn't give a full picture.

Of course it does. I´ll know whether the car put him in the wall or not.

Which isn't the full picture.

Teams "bend the truth"? No, really? Why would they ever do such a thing! It's not like McLaren is looking for a title sponsor and can't really use bad PR, is it?

Are you really that dense? And still you say a PR release is better then actual telemetry.

Yes, a PR release is much better than releasing Telemetry for everyone to misinterpret.

You´ve contradicted yourself so many times now and going straight to the ignore button, i can´t be bothered with such dense objects.

"Whehh, he doesn't support me in releasing telemetry to support only MY OWN theory".

[lebesset]

how about the opinion of someone who is

accustomed to reading the telemetry
saw all the telemetry
wouldn't risk his neck
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/m ... grand-prix

[timbo]

how about the opinion of someone who is

accustomed to reading the telemetry
saw all the telemetry
wouldn't risk his neck
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/m ... grand-prix

Yeah

Asked whether he thought it was a normal accident Button shrugged and added: “I can’t comment on that. It’s unfair.”

[lebesset]

how about the opinion of someone who is

accustomed to reading the telemetry
saw all the telemetry
wouldn't risk his neck
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/m ... grand-prix

Yeah

Asked whether he thought it was a normal accident Button shrugged and added: “I can’t comment on that. It’s unfair.”

well , you wouldn't expect him to admit that he thought his team mate messed up , would you ?

[timbo]

well , you wouldn't expect him to admit that he thought his team mate messed up , would you ?

I mean this interview does not really make things any clearer.

[lebesset]

well , you wouldn't expect him to admit that he thought his team mate messed up , would you ?

I mean this interview does not really make things any clearer.

it makes it quite clear that there is nothing wrong with the car , and blood tests showed there was no electric shock
how clear can it be ..unless you think button was telling lies and was stupid enoughto drive an unsafe car