Renault Power Unit Hardware & Software

[gandharva]

Something I read on another site showed that the Red Bull top speed was only 322km/h vs the Renault F1 top speed of 332km/h. Is Red Bull making things worse by having too much down force? Only the McHonda was slower.

It's more likely that the Renault isn't generating enough down force. They've had no dev budget until the very end of last year.

Exactly. Same last year with TR. They had much better top speed, because of lack of downforce. Renault would be stupid to miss the opportunity of gathering thousands of kilometers of data by giving RBR an old 2015 engine for testing.

So imho the difference comes from a) downforce and b) (maybe) more consarvative engine settings.

Btw. AMUS top speed table show 325 km/h for RBR. They also have sector tops speeds:

[Juzh]

Useless numbers.

[gandharva]

Useless numbers.

Wrong.

E.g. Sector speed (sector 2) clearly shows that FI was on much lower fuel than Ferrari and RBR. You can draw more of that conclusions when you start to correlate that numbers with the used tires.

[Blackout]

We shouldn't focus the RB top speed, we dont know the conditions (we know RIC said the he feels the PU is developing the same power as late 2015, though) but the Renault one is quite interesting.
The Renault has roughly the same top speed as the Merc-powered E23 in this circuit...
And this RS.16 is like a late version of the E23 so it should have a bit more DF, or a very similar amount of DF.
IMO the main reason is RBR and Renault used different PU specs + the difference regarding the generated DF. Obviously the RB is better in that regard.
So those numbers remain interesting even if you assume 322 and 332 is the best the RB12 and RS16 can do respectively.
No it's not stupid to split the PU evolutions between the two cars. I dont think RB has the same Brazil spec D. Taffin suggests Renault (in general, not the team) is running an evolution of that spec D, but still without all the updates (they didnt use the new turbo in Brazil for example...)

[gandharva]

The RS16 is not even close to RBRs downforce levels!

According to your assumptions all RBR needs to do, is to slap in the new engine spec and go for victory. Not going to happen!
Hopefully Renault will have the first iteration of the revised Illmore engine ready for European season and not delay as they did last year... let alone, new reliability issues appear...

[Juzh]

Useless numbers.

Wrong.

E.g. Sector speed (sector 2) clearly shows that FI was on much lower fuel than Ferrari and RBR. You can draw more of that conclusions when you start to correlate that numbers with the used tires.

I meant useless numbers in terms of power output. For the reasons you just mentioned. Ferrari was actually slower in this chart than it was in 2015 qualifying, despite being on ultra softs. That alone should tell you enough.

Renault 333 kmh is bogus as well, I guarantee it. Most likely done in slipstream. Especially since they're not destroying red bull in other sectors.
Massa did 348 kmh in 2014 race in slipstream.

[Blackout]

lol "slipstream"
Magunssen was behind another car in every lap is did? because he didnt get that top speed once, he did it many times.

The RS16 is not even close to RBRs downforce levels!

According to your assumptions all RBR needs to do, is to slap in the new engine spec and go for victory. Not going to happen!
Hopefully Renault will have the first iteration of the revised Illmore engine ready for European season and not delay as they did last year... let alone, new reliability issues appear...

I'm comparing the RS.16 to the E23 first (and they are basically the same car*). And AFAIR I said the RBR has more downforce.

According to your assumptions all RBR needs to do, is to slap in the new engine spec and go for victory.

Nope that's just your interpretation which is based on a misunderstanding of my post.
We wont go anywhere if you dont read the posts first.

[Blackout]

And maybe nobody used slipstream and DRS during the 4 days, except Magnussen

[gandharva]

Right (and I fully got your comparison), but in the end you always draw the conclusion that RBR must have run a different engine. But, this only makes sense if the difference in top speed is not fully based on downforce. But imho it is. The RS16 chassis is that bad!

Or do you want me to explain now that your whole assumption is bogus?

[Blackout]

Yes reliability is still a big concern... including the dyno reliability.
But thanks to the Illmor cooperation they have more dynos and much more datas.

[gandharva]

Yes, the broken turbo was not a good sign, but I think this was mainly due to bad PU integration and/or lack of cooling.

[Juzh]

lol "slipstream"
Magunssen was behind another car in every lap is did? because he didnt get that top speed once, he did it many times.

How many times? When?

[Juzh]

Mercedes 339 is probably from when rosberg and vettel were having their little scrap.

[Silent Storm]

Some differences between the two. https://twitter.com/albrodpul/status/702247933991845890

[Blackout]

Biggest noticeable change for Renault IMO according to that pic is the completely new intake plenum.
They already had variable length trumpets last year.
Biggest change for Enstone is the cooling layout. In 2014 they had a water-air intercooler in the left hand sidepod (+engine and/or ERS-gear box rads). While in 2015 they had an air-air intercooler which occupied the whole left hand sidepod. Engine rads where on the right hand sidepod.
This year they seem to have one air-air intercooler and one oil or water engine rad in each sidepod, like RBR. But the intercooler piping look more like Toro Rosso's.

lol "slipstream"
Magunssen was behind another car in every lap is did? because he didnt get that top speed once, he did it many times.

How many times? When?

Dont know but that RS.16 also did a 329 and some other 330 according to some f1 testing followers on twitter.
Was it slipstreaming other cars there too?