2022 Austrian Grand Prix - Spielberg, July 08 - 10

[cplchanb]

personally, if you think 1 part of the orange grandstands is bad just imagine what may happen in dutch gp where its reversed. if the situation doesnt improve at that gp
FOM should seriously consider punishments for the promoter or even suspension of the race next year. but of course they wont since its a money driver....

[Tvetovnato]

And how can it be OK for the crowd to use orange smoke at a race track? They are literally driving into an orange cloud. Could be seriously dangerous.

[chrisc90]

And how can it be OK for the crowd to use orange smoke at a race track? They are literally driving into an orange cloud. Could be seriously dangerous.

A lot of that will have dispersed a lot come the time its over the track.

No different to if it was raining and lower visibility though.

[Hammerfist]

The analysis dialtone did of lap times disagrees with you.

Let me remind you:


https://i.imgur.com/4bF4ZWu_d.webp?maxw ... ity=medium

What laps were Hamilton faster again and ‘catching him up fast’?

I cannot read this graph on my phone. When the lap times get released from en.mclarenf1 then I will gladly respond.

It seemed obvious to me though that the reason why Max pitted the second time was because hamilton was closing in towards his pit window. I'm pretty sure the commentators mentioned it as well. Are you guys too biased to even hear that?

https://m.imgur.com/4bF4ZWu?r

Any better for you with a direct link?


https://www.fia.com/events/fia-formula- ... nformation


Plenty info on lap timing there aswell
Hamilton was faster than max on a handful of laps. He was never ever closing in at a rapid rate.

No bias at all, just the facts of the lap times which show a completely different story to what your suggesting.

Are YOU to bias to make that remark without knowing the facts; as you said.

Facts my arse It wasn't just a "handful of laps"

These are laps 30-35

Verstappen Hamilton

30 lap 1:10.609 1:10.476 +0.133 -32.733
31 lap 1:10.897 1:10.041 +0.856 -31.877
32 lap 1:11.073 1:10.190 +0.883 -30.994
33 lap 1:11.636 1:10.138 +1.498 -29.496
34 lap 1:11.190 1:10.066 +1.124 -28.372
35 lap 1:11.173 1:09.804

Hamilton was over a second quicker per lap on average, which once again forced Max to pit on lap 36.

Here are Laps 53-56 VSC came out on lap 57, if it hadn't Hamilton would have continued to make up a lot of ground. The ground he was making up is reduced on this stint because Merc put him on the Medium tire. It was a bad gamble in the end. The hard tire was the right tire to have for that length of stint.

Verstappen Hamilton
53 lap 1:10.828 1:10.394 +0.434 -36.772
54 lap 1:10.265 1:10.381 -0.116 -36.888
55 lap 1:10.109 1:09.841 +0.268 -36.620
56 lap 1:09.733 1:09.138 +0.595 -36.025


It doesn't take a genius to see with a difference like that it would have been a race if they were anywhere near each other, Hamilton could always go longer and come back at Max on fresher tires and have gobs more pace. This is how Ferrari ultimately won that race by the way, by virtue of being able to run longer. Not sure what happened to Max, but this wasn't a strong race for him. Perhaps pushing too hard to keep Leclerc behind. Perez not being there to give us a barometer is a problem.

It is clear to me that this should have been a race, had Hamilton started more towards the front.

[PlatinumZealot]

Is this what F1 fandom is becoming

Nothing new. Typical.

[mkay]

AMUS pretty much confirmed what you've just said @Hammerfist.

To be clear, this wasn't due to Merc being on par in terms of pace, but everything to do with Red Bull's subpar tyre deg for most of the race.

[chrisc90]

9 laps out of 71 is a minority, and not even a handful.

Looking at them side by side. Max is on average 1-2 seconds a lap quicker than Lewis across the whole GP, not just the 9 laps you have selected.


The laps you highlight, are the ones when Lewis had fresh tyres after pitting. given he pitted on Lap 29 with a time of 1mins 30. Even with terrible tyre deg, and looking at the laps before lewis pitted on Lap 52, he is still on average half a second behind Max on lap time.

https://www.f1-tempo.com/

Stick Lewis and Max into that site and compare lap times.

Ultimately, the Merc was still nowhere close to a 'slow' red bull today. Even if Hamilton started pole, and comparing the initial laps when all were on the same tyre, Lewis was still neigh on 1.0-1.5secs slower than Max.

[mkay]

9 laps out of 71 is a minority, and not even a handful.

Looking at them side by side. Max is on average 1-2 seconds a lap quicker than Lewis across the whole GP, not just the 9 laps you have selected.
https://i.ibb.co/553W3jQ/verham.jpg

The laps you highlight, are the ones when Lewis had fresh tyres after pitting. given he pitted on Lap 29 with a time of 1mins 30. Even with terrible tyre deg, and looking at the laps before lewis pitted on Lap 52, he is still on average half a second behind Max on lap time.

https://www.f1-tempo.com/

Stick Lewis and Max into that site and compare lap times.

Ultimately, the Merc was still nowhere close to a 'slow' red bull today. Even if Hamilton started pole, and comparing the initial laps when all were on the same tyre, Lewis was still neigh on 1.0-1.5secs slower than Max.

Hamilton was in traffic until lap 18 and already a pitstop behind Max at that point.

Max 3-stopped, Lewis 2-stopped - so obviously, Max's lap times will look better, as the lap time chart you posted doesn't show the time lost in the pits. One of Max's pit stops was under VSC so time loss was roughly halved.

Hamilton basically brought the car home after the 2nd pitstop. His P3 was already secured (had a 15s gap to P4) and P1/P2 were too far up the road. Hamilton was also under warning for track limits, so no reason to push whatsoever.

Truth is we'll never know if HAM would have had the pace in clear air from the get go (assuming starting in P4 or P5) to challenge Max knowing his issues with car balance and tyre deg. AMUS believes so after crunching the numbers.

[AR3-GP]

9 laps out of 71 is a minority, and not even a handful.

Looking at them side by side. Max is on average 1-2 seconds a lap quicker than Lewis across the whole GP, not just the 9 laps you have selected.
https://i.ibb.co/553W3jQ/verham.jpg

The laps you highlight, are the ones when Lewis had fresh tyres after pitting. given he pitted on Lap 29 with a time of 1mins 30. Even with terrible tyre deg, and looking at the laps before lewis pitted on Lap 52, he is still on average half a second behind Max on lap time.

https://www.f1-tempo.com/

Stick Lewis and Max into that site and compare lap times.

Ultimately, the Merc was still nowhere close to a 'slow' red bull today. Even if Hamilton started pole, and comparing the initial laps when all were on the same tyre, Lewis was still neigh on 1.0-1.5secs slower than Max.

Hamilton was in traffic until lap 18 and already a pitstop behind Max at that point.

Max 3-stopped, Lewis 2-stopped - so obviously, Max's lap times will look better, as the lap time chart you posted doesn't show the time lost in the pits. One of Max's pit stops was under VSC so time loss was roughly halved.

Hamilton basically brought the car home after the 2nd pitstop. His P3 was already secured (had a 15s gap to P4) and P1/P2 were too far up the road. Hamilton was also under warning for track limits, so no reason to push whatsoever.

Truth is we'll never know if HAM would have had the pace in clear air from the get go (assuming starting in P4 or P5) to challenge Max knowing his issues with car balance and tyre deg. AMUS believes so after crunching the numbers.

There is no need to speculate and make if's buts and cuts and coulda shoulda wouldas.

If the Merc is able to race the leaders, it will show on the circuit soon enough. It's pointless making up numbers when they've not seen which way the other went on the circuit.

It doesn't matter what the deg is at the end of the stint if you've given up 40 seconds or were so slow as to be overtaken by a Haas in the beginning. It points to deficiencies that hinder the overall ability to perform.

[mendis]

Kevin shows how you can defend in the corner 4. He breaks later but hugs the apex tightly and gives enough room for Lando. Other drivers make us believe it is not possible without a contact and saying the car under steered.

At 3m20s.

[dialtone]

I don't really care much about George Russell and Leclerc was going to win even with Perez around. All this disclaimer out... Corner 4 is normally an under steer corner even in a good condition, from the inside you're supposed to leave 1 car width, Russell didn't lounge in the corner and understeered on exit, he simply understeered because it's pretty normal there.

Kevin and Lando are a totally different setup, Lando never gets closer than 1 car width to Kevin in that corner, post race interview I think (I can't find the reference so feel free to discard this) he said that you are always taking some chances on the outside of turn 4 in austria and you need to leave plenty of space for the car inside. The only reason why Kevin defended is that Lando understeered in the corner more than him as he ran long.

This also already happened almost identical in 2020:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/vide ... 48000.html

Here's Checo understeering into Charles in turn 4 last year:

Was Checo penalized? of course not and the sky crew is obviously talking about this being a racing incident. And then Checo did it again in the same race a few corners later pushing Leclerc in the gravel



and here crofty even saying it's fair racing, what a buffoon.

It's a different corner, but to show that Russell didn't lounge and understeer in the corner,



2019 pass of Verstappen to Leclerc in Austria in T3, no penalization again.

As I said I don't really care about Russell, perhaps the 5s penalty is justified, but to hear Red Bull fans come around, holier than thou filled of their divine justice, and try to attack these moves that they've been pulling on other teams for the past 3+ years in this same track is just too funny.

Every single one of the equivalent Red Bull caused incidents was judged a racing incident with no penalty. This went to a 5s penalty and license points...

Consistency, where art thou?

[langedweil]

It's almost as if you people don't understand tire degradation and the effect it can have in a race. Even Toto said that the race pace was good even though the result and final gap doesn't show it. Please educate yourself.

Maybe get off of your High Chair ?
I actually know really well how tire degradation works from some long time experience, and if you really understood data you wouldn't state such nonsense.
I couldn't care less what Toto says btw ...

[mendis]

Leclerc schooled the dutch kid on good racing.. Lewis and charles respect each other because they are clean drivers.. unlike the dutch boy

Charles put Lewis on grass with aggressive defending in 2019 Italian GP and Lewis had to go off track to save. Charles was given black and white flag for it. They all do it when needed.

[PlatinumZealot]

80% of the thread is about a certin twilight driver who isn't even winning. Sad.

[Just_a_fan]

Kevin shows how you can defend in the corner 4. He breaks later but hugs the apex tightly and gives enough room for Lando. Other drivers make us believe it is not possible without a contact and saying the car under steered.

At 3m20s.

Look at Lando's line - he stays out wider and doesn't try to hold it out around the outside. Perez took a much vloser line - basically almost touching Russell at the very early apex. So there is no comparison between the two situations.