McLaren MCL60

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
trinidefender
trinidefender
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Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: McLaren MCL60

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Henk_v wrote:
27 Jul 2023, 22:02
Given the ride height is 100% dictated by the eau rouge compression, you need all the stiffness you can get.
Not necessarily. There are a few options to alleviate that problem from bump-stops with varying stiffnesses to different rising rate springs and/or bellcranks allowing the car to be set up softer at slower speeds but stiffening up for those sections.

Farnborough
Farnborough
100
Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: McLaren MCL60

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trinidefender wrote:
28 Jul 2023, 01:12
Henk_v wrote:
27 Jul 2023, 22:02
Given the ride height is 100% dictated by the eau rouge compression, you need all the stiffness you can get.
Not necessarily. There are a few options to alleviate that problem from bump-stops with varying stiffnesses to different rising rate springs and/or bellcranks allowing the car to be set up softer at slower speeds but stiffening up for those sections.
This is one of the areas in which the so called "anti dive" has an effect and how its arranged on some chassis. Notice how good (almost unaffected) was RB here last year.
It partly separates the consistent vertical component by supporting compression with geometry conflict, while leaving the true spring/torsion provision to cope with more conventional irregularities.

Tomsky
Tomsky
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Joined: 03 Jul 2023, 01:41

Re: McLaren MCL60

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DiogoBrand
73
Joined: 14 May 2015, 19:02
Location: Brazil

Re: McLaren MCL60

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Farnborough wrote:
28 Jul 2023, 09:02
trinidefender wrote:
28 Jul 2023, 01:12
Henk_v wrote:
27 Jul 2023, 22:02
Given the ride height is 100% dictated by the eau rouge compression, you need all the stiffness you can get.
Not necessarily. There are a few options to alleviate that problem from bump-stops with varying stiffnesses to different rising rate springs and/or bellcranks allowing the car to be set up softer at slower speeds but stiffening up for those sections.
This is one of the areas in which the so called "anti dive" has an effect and how its arranged on some chassis. Notice how good (almost unaffected) was RB here last year.
It partly separates the consistent vertical component by supporting compression with geometry conflict, while leaving the true spring/torsion provision to cope with more conventional irregularities.
As far as I know, anti dive and anti squat are meant to control compression under longitudinal acceleration, like accelerating and braking, not vertical load due to downforce, lateral load or vertical change of direction, as is the case of Eau Rouge.

MCLvamos
MCLvamos
0
Joined: 30 Jun 2023, 18:41

Re: McLaren MCL60

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Tomsky wrote:
28 Jul 2023, 11:18
https://i.imgur.com/3nMmR9a.jpeg
No trims visible on the earlier images sent, so I assume they've brought multiple levels of DF rear wing, and it just so happened the higher DF one was the one put on during Thursday assembly (perhaps with an eye on the weather).

Farnborough
Farnborough
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Joined: 18 Mar 2023, 14:15

Re: McLaren MCL60

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DiogoBrand wrote:
28 Jul 2023, 11:40
Farnborough wrote:
28 Jul 2023, 09:02
trinidefender wrote:
28 Jul 2023, 01:12


Not necessarily. There are a few options to alleviate that problem from bump-stops with varying stiffnesses to different rising rate springs and/or bellcranks allowing the car to be set up softer at slower speeds but stiffening up for those sections.
This is one of the areas in which the so called "anti dive" has an effect and how its arranged on some chassis. Notice how good (almost unaffected) was RB here last year.
It partly separates the consistent vertical component by supporting compression with geometry conflict, while leaving the true spring/torsion provision to cope with more conventional irregularities.
As far as I know, anti dive and anti squat are meant to control compression under longitudinal acceleration, like accelerating and braking, not vertical load due to downforce, lateral load or vertical change of direction, as is the case of Eau Rouge.
I put it in " " as others describe it as such, and yes agree with you in it's purest form as to effects.

But these more extreme drop of rear suspension leg (using RB as example) and difficult to fully judge because we cannot really see the top outer joint of those two components, have the capability to add conflict, hysteris and individual spring effect tuning to this vertical path.
If (you can can see the limitations of description) the two top arm are single component, then upward movement will initiate a torsion of the top single "crossbow" link rather than just vertical movement. This available to any vertical chassis load. That design was (obviously other chassis parts are influences) easily the least affected by the TD 039 imposition last year.
We've something to look for at least this year in relative performance in seeing if this team or others move nearer to parity.

CjC
CjC
11
Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: McLaren MCL60

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Tomsky wrote:
28 Jul 2023, 11:18
https://i.imgur.com/3nMmR9a.jpeg
Just circuit specific. No fundamental upgrades to the car.
Just a fan's point of view

Tomsky
Tomsky
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Joined: 03 Jul 2023, 01:41

Re: McLaren MCL60

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f1rules
f1rules
597
Joined: 11 Jan 2004, 15:34
Location: Denmark

Re: McLaren MCL60

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rb vs mcl pics from

Thomas Maher
@thomasmaheronf1
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f1rules
f1rules
597
Joined: 11 Jan 2004, 15:34
Location: Denmark

Re: McLaren MCL60

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and more close up from

Luke Smith
@LukeSmithF1

Image
Image

and picture from yesterday
Image

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djos
113
Joined: 19 May 2006, 06:09
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: McLaren MCL60

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Tomsky wrote:
28 Jul 2023, 12:06
Considering how long PP spent working with Adrian, he might well be the best person to understand how Adrian linked the diffuser to the rear wing.
"In downforce we trust"

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MrGapes
33
Joined: 10 Mar 2021, 09:24

Re: McLaren MCL60

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Image

Image

Testing two beam wing configs (Oscar High df, Lando Low)

Macklaren
Macklaren
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Joined: 23 Feb 2014, 16:26

Re: McLaren MCL60

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I'm surprised they said circuit specific... This low DF wing looks like it it can be a universal solution except in places like Singapore. Particularly if it boosts drs

f1rules
f1rules
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Joined: 11 Jan 2004, 15:34
Location: Denmark

Re: McLaren MCL60

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Thought: how its described, rbs effect and what mcl is trying to copy is the interaction between beamwing and mainplane to reduce drag, do we think it will get so developed that there will be a specific beamwing suited for each track or maybe just aoa, meaning if they know it needs to work from this velocity, faster then the fastets corner, then we do this angle, etc, so they can finetune for each track which speed the beamwing start to have effect?

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MrGapes
33
Joined: 10 Mar 2021, 09:24

Re: McLaren MCL60

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f1rules wrote:
28 Jul 2023, 15:04
Thought: how its described, rbs effect and what mcl is trying to copy is the interaction between beamwing and mainplane to reduce drag, do we think it will get so developed that there will be a specific beamwing suited for each track or maybe just aoa, meaning if they know it needs to work from this velocity, faster then the fastets corner, then we do this angle, etc, so they can finetune for each track which speed the beamwing start to have effect?
It would certainly be more cost friendly..than 5 rear wing assemblages