Red Bull RB9 Renault

[Rikhart]

is there any "spanish-specialist" who can sum up what was tweeted there https://twitter.com/F1Stars_spain?

only about DRD or also about some other bits?

Dont even see any mention of anything technical there, they are saying "It seems I was wrong" (dont ask me about what).

[Forghieri]

is there any "spanish-specialist" who can sum up what was tweeted there https://twitter.com/F1Stars_spain?

only about DRD or also about some other bits?

Dont even see any mention of anything technical there, they are saying "It seems I was wrong" (dont ask me about what).

You're right, nothing technical, the Italian guy (C.Sponton) mentioned on his F1 site that there was testing going on at IDIA (Red Bull, Sauber, Ferrari), the Spanish guy told him that he or a friend practically lives next to the circuit, and that there was absolutely nobody on track, so the rumour was false.
The Italian guy thanks him and apologizes.

[CottrellGP]

Could anyone tell me why Red Bull are getting away with running that small rear wing? or small AoA?

[Neno]

Could anyone tell me why Red Bull are getting away with running that small rear wing? or small AoA?

they have too much downforce, and too much downforce hurt their tyres, that is theory in who Red Bull fans belive

[wesley123]

Could anyone tell me why Red Bull are getting away with running that small rear wing? or small AoA?

they have too much downforce, and too much downforce hurt their tyres, that is theory in who Red Bull fans belive

Yeah too much df that can hurt your tires is a bogus story, Nissan and Audi would fully agree with you.

[wesley123]

Could anyone tell me why Red Bull are getting away with running that small rear wing? or small AoA?

They really can't get away with it. It just seems like a setup that is required by the tires. Anyone with a sane mind would note that Australia and Malaysia arent ran with such low AoA's. Yet Red Bull did. And no that isnt because it is a quicker solution, and after what Marko said(it was in the W04 topic somewhere iic) about too much df hurting the tires it seems quite plausible that they just have too much df and have to tone it down by using lower wing angles.

[CottrellGP]

Could anyone tell me why Red Bull are getting away with running that small rear wing? or small AoA?

They really can't get away with it. It just seems like a setup that is required by the tires. Anyone with a sane mind would note that Australia and Malaysia arent ran with such low AoA's. Yet Red Bull did. And no that isnt because it is a quicker solution, and after what Marko said(it was in the W04 topic somewhere iic) about too much df hurting the tires it seems quite plausible that they just have too much df and have to tone it down by using lower wing angles.

That makes more sense and sounds right, cheers Wesley!

[bonjon1979]

Could anyone tell me why Red Bull are getting away with running that small rear wing? or small AoA?

They really can't get away with it. It just seems like a setup that is required by the tires. Anyone with a sane mind would note that Australia and Malaysia arent ran with such low AoA's. Yet Red Bull did. And no that isnt because it is a quicker solution, and after what Marko said(it was in the W04 topic somewhere iic) about too much df hurting the tires it seems quite plausible that they just have too much df and have to tone it down by using lower wing angles.

And yet in Malaysia Red bull were 19 + 20 in the speed trap. Maybe they have to run a reduced angle of attack because they're producing so much drag?

[Juzh]

Could anyone tell me why Red Bull are getting away with running that small rear wing? or small AoA?

They really can't get away with it. It just seems like a setup that is required by the tires. Anyone with a sane mind would note that Australia and Malaysia arent ran with such low AoA's. Yet Red Bull did. And no that isnt because it is a quicker solution, and after what Marko said(it was in the W04 topic somewhere iic) about too much df hurting the tires it seems quite plausible that they just have too much df and have to tone it down by using lower wing angles.

And yet in Malaysia Red bull were 19 + 20 in the speed trap. Maybe they have to run a reduced angle of attack because they're producing so much drag?

Surely this is one of the reasons, but still not entirely accurate. RB is slow in speed trap because they are geared purely for race with no drs usage. Its not like they couldn't go faster if they wanted to (regeared RB8 in abu dhabi).

[CottrellGP]

Also i think it has something to do with the engine mapping, if the exhausts are facing a natural way like in 2008 they produce more HP, for example Lotus last season were running with a normal exhaust exit and when they changed to Coanda exhaust they lost power and HP.

[wesley123]

Could anyone tell me why Red Bull are getting away with running that small rear wing? or small AoA?

They really can't get away with it. It just seems like a setup that is required by the tires. Anyone with a sane mind would note that Australia and Malaysia arent ran with such low AoA's. Yet Red Bull did. And no that isnt because it is a quicker solution, and after what Marko said(it was in the W04 topic somewhere iic) about too much df hurting the tires it seems quite plausible that they just have too much df and have to tone it down by using lower wing angles.

And yet in Malaysia Red bull were 19 + 20 in the speed trap. Maybe they have to run a reduced angle of attack because they're producing so much drag?

Like juzh said, it is mainly gearing. Red Bull tend to set their car up with fairly short gearing, having lower top speed but they reach their top speed much sooner on the straight. A plus for this is that the cars are hard to catch in DRS zones due to them just taking off out of a turn(ofc they are still grip limited)

[wesley123]

Also i think it has something to do with the engine mapping, if the exhausts are facing a natural way like in 2008 they produce more HP, for example Lotus last season were running with a normal exhaust exit and when they changed to Coanda exhaust they lost power and HP.

The coanda does indeed hurt HP a bit, but with changed mappings this loss is a bit countered, also the addition of the Heimholz(or however you spell it) chamber adds a bit of mid range torque(iic) which in turn improves driveability.

[Robbobnob]

And yet in Malaysia Red bull were 19 + 20 in the speed trap. Maybe they have to run a reduced angle of attack because they're producing so much drag?

Red Bull are not the slowest in the speed trap because they have more drag on the car.

The whole philosophy behind the car is to produce the fastest car around a track. This means optimizing the car to spend less time at slower speeds than the competition. Combined with their superior down force and traction, RedBull gear their car to accelerate faster out of the corner. This limits their overall straight line speed but the total time spent on the straight will be quicker than other teams who gear longer to make up for the deficit in traction when leaving the corner. (obviously this is track dependent as some tracks have shorter straights and longer corner complexes compared to others)

This hinders them when they are in traffic as the car is setup to reach its top speed quicker than the competition when in clear air. Couple the turbulent air and lack of down force, henceforth they lack traction when leaving a corner the RedBull is no longer able to make the most of its gearing ratio and usually struggles to overtake the leading car.

Total HP and torque are irrelevant if a car is limited in the amount it can put down into the tarmac.

On the too much downforce argument, It isnt a simple fact of too much downforce. More that RedBull have superior corner speeds compared to other teams because thats where they minimise the time lost around a circuit. Therefore the faster the car is through the corner the more shear on the surface of the tyre. I believe that RedBull run a smaller wing angle because they cannot make full use of the downforce mid corner as it is too detrimental to the life of the tyres. However on corner exit, RedBulls coanda exhaust solution produces more than enough down-force to produce better traction than the competition. (RedBull were certainly were the most stable on corner entry and exit with superior traction, with only Ferrari anywhere close at albert park) During the 2011 season, RedBull ran significantly shallower rear wing angles than had been previously seen due to the grip advantage of the EBD.

[R_Redding]

In his Lanchester lecture Willem Toet says that a 10% difference in engine power gives a 1.5% change in laptime (averaged over the season and circuit types).

Now I have no idea what the exact power losses (if any) are for a RB or McLaren style exhaust system , but I'd wager they are much smaller than 10%.... and that the gains outweigh the losses otherwise they wouldnt be fitted to the car .

Rob

[stefan_]

China 2013 - Thursday (11.04.2013)


via Matt Somerfield