Williams FW35 Renault

[drunkmunky]

they kept the low end gearbox strategy for almost 3 years now and it has clearly not worked.
time to move on.

They did move on. This years gearbox has much higher tripod flanges if you look on the pictures.

You're not incorrect in stating the mechanical and structural changes to the box, but the aerodynamic concept of the low-lying rear end has persisted and could be touted as a method that has not yielded success

[Huntresa]

they kept the low end gearbox strategy for almost 3 years now and it has clearly not worked.
time to move on.

They did move on. This years gearbox has much higher tripod flanges if you look on the pictures.

You're not incorrect in stating the mechanical and structural changes to the box, but the aerodynamic concept of the low-lying rear end has persisted and could be touted as a method that has not yielded success

How do you know that that area isnt working aero wise ? Have you seen Williams CFD and Windtunnel ? Have Williams stated its not working ? Its prob just as efficient or inefficient as all the other cars.

[marcush.]

and the little fact others have followed and minatuurized their boxes as well ...like RedBull and Ferrari .
Williams has dropped the idea of a blown ,hollow hub and adapted the common route to direct air through the rim so i do´n´t think they are unwilling to move on ..maybe it´s more a question of not really knowing which is the weak link in their concept...with Pat symmonds they have hired a guy who has not worked for a top team since years -all the years with wide front wings - so maybe he has not really anything meaningful to supply to that end either...So a James Key ,Allison or at least someone leading projects in one of the top teams would be needed to clear up a few things......Williams working 50 or 60% models these days?

[drunkmunky]

How do you know that that area isnt working aero wise ? Have you seen Williams CFD and Windtunnel ? Have Williams stated its not working ? Its prob just as efficient or inefficient as all the other cars.

Probably?

[drunkmunky]

maybe it´s more a question of not really knowing which is the weak link in their concept...

The front wing and nose concept went out the window this year.
The brake duct diversion system has gone out the window.
The ramped exhaust has also gone out the window, as has the helmholtz chamber concept.
Now we see that the engine cover concept has also been abandoned for Singapore.

This team clearly realizes that it must go in a different aerodynamic direction. At least, it should.

[wesley123]

they kept the low end gearbox strategy for almost 3 years now and it has clearly not worked.
time to move on.

They did move on. This years gearbox has much higher tripod flanges if you look on the pictures.

You're not incorrect in stating the mechanical and structural changes to the box, but the aerodynamic concept of the low-lying rear end has persisted and could be touted as a method that has not yielded success

With the fact that Williams have not ran their official 2013 front wing and instead ran the 2012 one, together with changes to the front hub lay out and the older-style aero under the nose/tub I think that if we have to point out an area of problems it would be the front.

The area you pointed out has been used for 3 years now and is something they have continued to use, it even is adopted by other teams(although to a less extreme extent). it isn't any better or worst than others and it is something that in my view has very little advantage. Yes, it makes the rear end smaller, but for what? The beam wing isn't easier to reach with this, nor is the floor easier to reach. I think the ultra-small gearbox would have had a big advantage had they continued the DDD's into 2011.

[Huntresa]

maybe it´s more a question of not really knowing which is the weak link in their concept...

The front wing and nose concept went out the window this year.
The brake duct diversion system has gone out the window.
The ramped exhaust has also gone out the window, as has the helmholtz chamber concept.
Now we see that the engine cover concept has also been abandoned for Singapore.

This team clearly realizes that it must go in a different aerodynamic direction. At least, it should.

Yeah but the engine cover is specific for Singapore being so hot and humid.

[briant1]

Williams' aerodynamic philsosphy at the rear is not inherently bad. The small gearbox and tight coke bottle (in and by themselves) create good rear downforce and stability. The Williams FW 34 was competitive with this concept.

There are two big problems this year:

As aforementioned, one is the front of the car: Most developments here simply haven't worked (or at least they haven't worked together such as new front wing and floor). Given that the other teams made progress, running a working but old front wing just isnt good enough. Plus the entire rest of the car wasn't designed for this wing which will lead to numerous problems.

But the rear has also become problematic due to the developments by other teams. Last year few teams were running downwash/coanda exhausts and these were not terribly effective. Williams could offset the gains from this configuration by running their own good rear end. This year, all teams are running downwash/coanda exhausts and they have become really good. Williams had two choices: Develop their own coanda with a year delay compared to the other teams or try to optimize their own concept and hope it would yield comparable gains. Both options were not good and are further complicated by the fact that the tight rear end of the FW34 and the coanda exhaust simply dont go together. They still tried for the compromise and it isnt working but since their other options weren't good either, I think this year just has to be written off as a mismatch between Williams aero philosophy and the dominant coanda exhaust. While the whole thing could of course have been saved by completely redesigning the rear end, but that bears its own risks (see McLaren).

The good news are that coanda is out of the picture next year, which makes the tight rear end again the potentially best solution (of course other teams will copy it but Williams already has experience with it). As for the front end and the rest I can only hope that they solved their CFD/windtunnel/reality correlation issues.

[stefan_]

Singapore 2013 - Saturday (21.09.2013)

[aleks_ader]

Williams' aerodynamic philsosphy at the rear is not inherently bad. The small gearbox and tight coke bottle (in and by themselves) create good rear downforce and stability. The Williams FW 34 was competitive with this concept.

PLUS they quite disappointed with unexplored staring motor hole.

The good news are that coanda is out of the picture next year, which makes the tight rear end again the potentially best solution (of course other teams will copy it but Williams already has experience with it). As for the front end and the rest I can only hope that they solved their CFD/windtunnel/reality correlation issues.

Yes! As you sad especially for next year with Mercedes V6 engines this tight gearbox config will take crucial performance role in the overall (rear) package. Because unique Mercedes MGU-H long design (i knew it is no official but anyway, there we have it) witch will take soo much more space in the rear end above the "bellhousing" this could help in the air treatment (despite there is exhaust pipe)...

And also there is other aspect in higher driveshaft rule with also a bit contradict in this low end option. So they need to push developmend in that area. I think it is worth it.

But anyway the overall team lack of AERO development, maybe is just team stuff. They need strong team leader (technical and non technical also). In my opinion overall deep reconstruction on team management would help probably.

[Sevach]

The good news are that coanda is out of the picture next year, which makes the tight rear end again the potentially best solution (of course other teams will copy it but Williams already has experience with it). As for the front end and the rest I can only hope that they solved their CFD/windtunnel/reality correlation issues.

The low gearbox (and the pullrod rear suspension) are designed that way to enable a better flow to the beam wing.

The problem is for next year, as far as i'm aware, the beam wing is gone, a low rear end might not be the best solution.
We might see radical departures on rear end design, i think undercut pods and coke bottle, floor effectiveness in general, will take precedence over low slopping pods and a low rear end.

It's not a bad concept for current regulations, inspired on the RB5 (Sam Michael's words) and copied, perhaps in a more tame way, all over the grid, problems are elsewhere.

[stefan_]

Korea 2013 - Wednesday (02.10.2013)






via Dickie Stanford





via AMuS

[emmepi27]

New front wing on the left (similar old on the right)

[wesley123]

That front wing update is pretty neat. Hopefully for them they'll finally run it this race, that would give a sign of improvement at least.

[Huntresa]

Does Williams think that the more wings they bring the faster the car will go ?