2014 Malaysian Grand Prix - Sepang

[djos]

I hate the fact that they punish a driver for a team mistake, it's just fundamentally unfair, they should just dock the team constructor points and leave the driver out of it.

That's actually a great idea!

[willmesquita]

It still seems a grossly excessive punishment - fair enuf if the unsafe release involved a collision with another car in pit lane but for a loose wheel nut!!!

His race is already ruined, wrecking his next race is just cruel (regardless of the driver involved).

But teams agreed with that before the 1st race, so no complains. It has to be made to prevent accidents like that one after Red Bull's mistake on a Webber's pitstop.

[MuseF1]

Bianchi's case was even weirder, Massa in Korea(?) 2012 against Alonso was almost identical, Button had at least one of those, Raikkonen/Di Resta already mentioned. On top of that: "...was a consequence of what happened off the start, when Vergne hit me from behind and punctured my left rear tyre,".

The current hot topic seems to be penalties, so I'll chip in with my opinion.

I'm not singling you out in particular, Iotar, a fair few people say that Bianchi should not have had a penalty, but I am quite surprised by this, because in my opinion this is a clear penalty, as he collided with two cars and caused one to spin off.

So I made a gif that goes through a few frames and shows what happened. The gif is a bit slow, I don't know how to make a gif from BBCi Player so I had to improvise.

But firstly: Looking at Vettel's onboard (on BBCi), he is braking before 100 metres for turn 4 on the first lap, I'd say maybe 110 metres. I think either the HUD or audio is slightly out in this video of Alonso's start ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImPVtKa00hw ) but he still seems to be braking before 100 metres. So I added a red line to the gif because I think we can safely say that 100m is the absolute braking point for Turn 4 for a car with high fuel and cold brakes/tyres. This is especially generous as we are benchmarking against a Ferrari and Red Bull, it's fair to say that a Marussia does not have as good performance as these cars. In fairness though, the argument could also be made that due to the Marussia lining up at the back of the grid, it's tyres and brakes have much better temperature from sitting on the grid for a much shorter while.

So, with that explained, here is the gif http://gfycat.com/CircularGleamingDarklingbeetle

What you can see in the gif:

In the braking zone, Bianchi came across and started to squeeze Vergne, who could not steer out of the way because there was a car to his immediate left. As JEV had already selected and committed to his braking point he could not slow down further to avoid Bianchi. There was contact, either wing - wheel or wheel - wheel, giving Bianchi and possibly Vergne a puncture. Due to Bianchi's puncture, he could not slow down enough and collided with Maldonado who was spun around because of it.

So for me this incident seems clear. Bianchi has caused two collisions, one possibly resulted in a puncture and definitely a damaged wing for a competitor and another that spun a competitor around but could have easily been a race ending collision. Furthermore, I'm not sure if this is a concrete rule or just general driving standards, but you are not meant to move around in the braking zone when racing alongside competitors.

So I think that all these factors easily warrants a penalty.

Edit: Formatting, spelling mistakes

[thomin]

Can someone please explain to me how the FIA can legally penalize someone twice for the same incident?

Fan took his 10sec penalty in the race so how can they legally give him a 10 place grid penalty for the next race?

That would be like being fined twice for the same parking infringement which would be thrown out by any western court in 5 seconds flat!

The penalty for unsafe release is 10 second and 10 places, so it's more like a fine plus a suspended license for speeding
If the teams wants to do 2.5 second stops instead of 3 second stops fine, but loose wheels etc. can be very dangerous so the
FIA want to make sure that the teams know it will not be tolerated

Are you sure? The way it was explained to me (as far as I got it correctly) is that you get a 10s penalty during the race OR a 10 place grid penalty. But since Ricciardo didn't complete the race, the 10s penalty was void, so he automatically got the 10 place grid penalty.

[djos]

Are you sure? The way it was explained to me (as far as I got it correctly) is that you get a 10s penalty during the race OR a 10 place grid penalty. But since Ricciardo didn't complete the race, the 10s penalty was void, so he automatically got the 10 place grid penalty.

yeah that's what I was getting at, he got dinged twice for the same incident when it's supposed to be one or the other - i was under the impression he served the 10sec stop and go.

[thomin]

I hate the fact that they punish a driver for a team mistake, it's just fundamentally unfair, they should just dock the team constructor points and leave the driver out of it.

That's actually a great idea!

The problem is where to draw the line. As long as we're talking team errors that don't impact the race at all, I fully agree, but that would probably be rare either way.
For one, we would have to differentiate between unsafe releases that do hinder other drivers and those that don't.

So yeah, I would support that notion for cases like Ricciardo's where only his own race was harmed. But I wouldn't support if for unsafe releases in general.

[thomin]

Are you sure? The way it was explained to me (as far as I got it correctly) is that you get a 10s penalty during the race OR a 10 place grid penalty. But since Ricciardo didn't complete the race, the 10s penalty was void, so he automatically got the 10 place grid penalty.

yeah that's what I was getting at, he got dinged twice for the same incident when it's supposed to be one or the other - i was under the impression he served the 10sec stop and go.

I just looked it up. Here's the relevant rule:

"23.12 c) If a car is deemed to have been released in an unsafe condition during a race the driver concerned will receive a ten grid place penalty at the driver’s next Event. However, if any car released in an unsafe condition is able to resume the race a penalty under Article 16.3© will also be imposed on the driver concerned."

The penalty under article 16.3 c) is indeed a 10s stop-and-go penalty. So yeah, you really do get both penalties.

[djos]

The penalty under article 16.3 c) is indeed a 10s stop-and-go penalty. So yeah, you really do get both penalties.

Definitely overly brutal imo - I really hope none of the title contenders suffer this misfortune late in the season!

[BorisTheBlade]

The penalty under article 16.3 c) is indeed a 10s stop-and-go penalty. So yeah, you really do get both penalties.

Definitely overly brutal imo - I really hope none of the title contenders suffer this misfortune late in the season!

According to AMuS that particular penalty was requested by the teams to ensure safety.

[dans79]

I don't think this penalty is overly harsh, when you consider what the consequences truly are.

This video, shows the event that is widely considered to be the trigger of pit lane speed limits across all of motorsports.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPcCdC_Ic1o

[kooleracer]

Malaysian GP race start captured form the grandstand. The sound of these cars is something totally different from any race-car now. Great noise, just need a little more volume maybe. But I like this new sound. The TV sound definitely doesn't do the new powerunit's justice at all. FOM needs that relocate the microphones because the cars sound much better in real life.

[Richard]

With regard to the unsafe pit lane releases, there were a couple of accidents in pit lanes in the last season or two. One loose tyre hit a cameraman and one driver hit a mechanic. We've seen drivers pull away with the jacks and fuel lines attached in previous years.

Also bear in mind that the pit lane has a lot more people than the track and there's no catch fence. So I can see why the FIA and teams have agreed to a zero tolerance policy. It's better to punish before complacency leads to a serious injury.

The teams know the rules so no sympathy when they cross a red line that they've all agreed is needed.

As for "it's not fair on the driver", it's a team sport, lived with it. The driver can't be selective in taking benefits when things go well but crying foul if things go against them.

Ps the driver has a huge role in making sure the pit stop goes well. Everyone has to be responsible when it comes to safety.

[Juzh]

Malaysian GP race start captured form the grandstand. The sound of these cars is something totally different from any race-car now. Great noise, just need a little more volume maybe. But I like this new sound. The TV sound definitely doesn't do the new powerunit's justice at all. FOM needs that relocate the microphones because the cars sound much better in real life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VWLHJ-Fd1E

Just look at how much rosberg misses the start, yet still pulls 2 car lengths on vettel at the end of the straight.

[Blackout]

Where are the ''intermediate 1'' and 2 located ? http://184.106.145.74/f1-championship/f ... ds_V01.pdf
At the end of sector 1 and S2 ?

yes

Thanks.

[Emerson.F]

Team radio transcripts (Very telling and interesting)

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2014/04/02/2 ... ranscript/