2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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rayden
rayden
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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Yeah, I wouldn't even take a Merc seat over a RBR seat at the moment, the way things are going.

Especially when it looks like Ric will have a season or 2 with max in his pocket.

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djos
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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Andres125sx wrote:Lewis said on Sky, after the race, RBR was using more downforce than they (Mercedes) can. He used the word "can", so I take it as RBR highest DF setup provide more DF than Mercedes highest DF setup

I found it quite interesting as it does explain RBR perfomance and specially perfomance difference with Mercedes in this race. It might be that RBR chasis is not that good compared to Mercedes (one might think RBR chasis is the best by far for any track), but it was that good only for this track where RBR can use more DF.
It was fascinating to me that RedBull didn't need a monkey seat and yet Mercedes did... i'd love to know how comparable the downforce levels really were between the 2 cars!
"In downforce we trust"

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iotar__
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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Why are they making one bad pitstop into greatest tragedy in motorsport history and Ricciardo the biggest victim? I (and everyone else) have seen worse, done unquestionably on purpose by own teams or FIA, many times. No one blinked. So he was second instead of first and still has second best car in F1, boo hoo. "Where do I go from here?!" "Should he leave or retire?!" Cut the dramatics.

Comic relief AS gave Verstappen for crashing in FP3, crashing in Q and crashing in the race in the best car note 5/10 :wtf: . What would be 3/10 or 0/10? Name is B. Anderson and this is sponsored promotion not journalism. As expected Perez didn't get a single headline from usual suspects (AS, Amus etc.) there was one though about Vettel/Ferrari almost winning another race (as every other one), clearly more important event that didn't happen. F1 is worse than games industry.

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Moanlower
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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No post race press conference video to be found ?
Losers focus on winners, winners focus on winning.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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iotar__ wrote:Why are they making one bad pitstop into greatest tragedy in motorsport history and Ricciardo the biggest victim? I (and everyone else) have seen worse, done unquestionably on purpose by own teams or FIA, many times. No one blinked. So he was second instead of first and still has second best car in F1, boo hoo. "Where do I go from here?!" "Should he leave or retire?!" Cut the dramatics.

Comic relief AS gave Verstappen for crashing in FP3, crashing in Q and crashing in the race in the best car note 5/10 :wtf: . What would be 3/10 or 0/10? Name is B. Anderson and this is sponsored promotion not journalism. As expected Perez didn't get a single headline from usual suspects (AS, Amus etc.) there was one though about Vettel/Ferrari almost winning another race (as every other one), clearly more important event that didn't happen. F1 is worse than games industry.
Perez could win and lap the entire field and AS would speak about the second driver of the race.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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PhillipM wrote:That and respective performance was more about tyre temperature management than downforce.
DF is hugely relevant to tyre temperature managment, so I´d say it´s the other way around, it´s DF wich made a difference between Mercedes who was forced to use US, while RBR could use SS.

But since it was Monaco, (no overtaking ) Lewis could nurse his tires to the end without worrying about Ric passing him. At any other track, Ric would have fly pass him.

Lewis also said his tires reached the cliff in last lap, so only 2 more laps and victory would have been for RBR

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iotar__
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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After re-watching: Raikkonen, crashed on his own, caused the collision with Massa - first penalty, caused the collision with Grosjean - second, continued driving with a broken car slowly on the racing line before, after and during collisions - third. Three events that unquestionably happened, with clear reason (Raikkonen's driving) and they gave this "reason": http://www.fia.com/file/42567/download? ... ote]driver stated that he thought initially that he could safely proceed to the pits to replace the nose" [/quote]A. Who cares what he thought?! Are they judging thought process or events that followed? "I thought I could squeeze 2 m of a car into 2 cm space". OK off you go, fair enough. He thought wrongly - a penalty.
B. He clearly couldn't (no control) as evidence of two collisions he caused showed. No, on track events don't matter because "Radio messages confirm this." How about: real world showed something the opposite? Who cares about radio messages, is he remote controlled by radio?
"The Team advised the driver that he needed to stop the car as soon as possible." and "driver stated that he wanted to stop the car in a safe place and the first available place was the runoff area at Turn 10."
Too late and doesn't matter, that was after two collisions and dangerous driving with a broken car on the racing line (event begins when he crashes and starts driving which they skipped). They're using unsafe release excuses from Aus '15 #-o that don't fit, avoid basic facts (collisions) replacing it with thoughts, statements and radio messages. Driver can make a decision to stop himself an the first safe place was the place of the crash. This is Whiting's record in, let's call a spade spade, cheating: 3 in 1.

PhillipM
PhillipM
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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Andres125sx wrote:
PhillipM wrote:That and respective performance was more about tyre temperature management than downforce.
DF is hugely relevant to tyre temperature managment, so I´d say it´s the other way around, it´s DF wich made a difference between Mercedes who was forced to use US, while RBR could use SS.

But since it was Monaco, (no overtaking ) Lewis could nurse his tires to the end without worrying about Ric passing him. At any other track, Ric would have fly pass him.

Lewis also said his tires reached the cliff in last lap, so only 2 more laps and victory would have been for RBR
Around Monaco, under multiple VSCs, to have tyre temp within seconds?
No, that's not downforce - I think FI and RBR just picked the right tyre with a lower operating window and had the setup to keep heat in them, which was much more of a differentiator than the car setup.
Of course, if I'm wrong we'll obviously see FI fighting for podiums at Canada with the DF and power they suddenly seem to have at Monaco....but I won't hold my breath.

GrayGreat
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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iotar__ wrote:After re-watching: Raikkonen, crashed on his own, caused the collision with Massa - first penalty, caused the collision with Grosjean - second, continued driving with a broken car slowly on the racing line before, after and during collisions - third. Three events that unquestionably happened, with clear reason (Raikkonen's driving) and they gave this "reason": http://www.fia.com/file/42567/download? ... ote]driver stated that he thought initially that he could safely proceed to the pits to replace the nose"
A. Who cares what he thought?! Are they judging thought process or events that followed? "I thought I could squeeze 2 m of a car into 2 cm space". OK off you go, fair enough. He thought wrongly - a penalty.
B. He clearly couldn't (no control) as evidence of two collisions he caused showed. No, on track events don't matter because "Radio messages confirm this." How about: real world showed something the opposite? Who cares about radio messages, is he remote controlled by radio?
"The Team advised the driver that he needed to stop the car as soon as possible." and "driver stated that he wanted to stop the car in a safe place and the first available place was the runoff area at Turn 10."
Too late and doesn't matter, that was after two collisions and dangerous driving with a broken car on the racing line (event begins when he crashes and starts driving which they skipped). They're using unsafe release excuses from Aus '15 #-o that don't fit, avoid basic facts (collisions) replacing it with thoughts, statements and radio messages. Driver can make a decision to stop himself an the first safe place was the place of the crash. This is Whiting's record in, let's call a spade spade, cheating: 3 in 1.[/quote]

When was the last time Ferrari received a penalty for something, or any 'BIG' team for that matter? Other than gearbox, PU etc. FIA is biased pos.

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turbof1
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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I can somewhat agree (not completely) that Kimi thought it was safe to return to the pits. Remember: he cannot see that the wing slipped underneath his tyres inmediately. However, the severe understeer and the obvious case of the left tyre not rotating should be a clear sign. This should have been obvious in turn 7:


He could easily have parked the car at turn 8 Portier:
Image
He made the malicious choice however to continue into the tunnel. He definitely should have been punished for that since any pieces breaking off the wing ending up on the race line, would have been neigh impossible to avoid.

I don't really think it would have been fair to penalise him for the accident with Grosjean. At that point he could not have been aware of the wing being underneath his wheels, so in all fairness he did not make willingly or over-agressively a mistake towards Grosjean. The car simply did not respond on turn-in.
#AeroFrodo

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Phil
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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Apparently, Kimi was informed by the team to stop the car, but by then he was already in the tunnel, so he decided to continue to where he then stopped. Sounds very reasonable given the circumstance and probably why the stewards didn't punish him.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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turbof1
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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Phil wrote:Apparently, Kimi was informed by the team to stop the car, but by then he was already in the tunnel, so he decided to continue to where he then stopped. Sounds very reasonable given the circumstance and probably why the stewards didn't punish him.
There I disagree, for the simple reason he should not have waited for the team to tell him to pull over.
#AeroFrodo

Manoah2u
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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actually, ericcsson or nasr, cant recall which one of them, hit the front wing debris of raikkonen and was lucky not to get

A) a puncture
B) front wing damage
C) a piece to his cockpit

i'm indeed highly surprised he did not get a punishment. even if it were a reprimand. just goes to show politics.

btw, did Kvyat get a penalty for his stupid move? ericsson got a grid penalty and points on his license,
but kvyat's move was equally retarded and thus should recieve a penalty aswell. he might have ruined his own race, but he also
damaged Magnussen's car.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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Phil
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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turbof1 wrote:
Phil wrote:Apparently, Kimi was informed by the team to stop the car, but by then he was already in the tunnel, so he decided to continue to where he then stopped. Sounds very reasonable given the circumstance and probably why the stewards didn't punish him.
There I disagree, for the simple reason he should not have waited for the team to tell him to pull over.
I'm not disagreeing. I just relayed on what I heard from the post-race interview. From the moment he broke his wing to when he collided with, I think Grosjean, , there were two corners. He said that the wheel at the time started turning again, so at that point, he was unsure of what exactly was happening or what was causing it. That led him to continue on and next thing you know, he is in the tunnel and the team is radioing him to stop the car.

Easy to dissect from the birds-view we all had, but from his point of view, he wasn't aware of what exactly happened or what the extend of the damage was. We have seen other kinds of similar damage where the front wing broke off and the car drove over it and was able to continue. As I said, I'm not defending it, just shedding on some (more) light on why the stewards might have deemed it to be unfortunate, but considering he had the mental capacity to know that stopping in the tunnel would have been the worst and dangerous, that he made a reasonable choice to continue at that point, even if perhaps there was enough reason to have stopped before the tunnel.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

kasio
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Re: 2016 Monaco Grand Prix - Monte Carlo, Thu 26 – Sun 29 May

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iotar__ wrote:After re-watching: Raikkonen, crashed on his own, caused the collision with Massa - first penalty, caused the collision with Grosjean - second, continued driving with a broken car slowly on the racing line before, after and during collisions - third. Three events that unquestionably happened, with clear reason (Raikkonen's driving) and they gave this "reason": http://www.fia.com/file/42567/download? ... ote]driver stated that he thought initially that he could safely proceed to the pits to replace the nose"
[/quote]

Sorry?
Caused a colision with Masa? could You tell me how?
What i saw was Massa caused colison with raikonen because he saw oportunity to use raikonen as shield to get into inside of Grosejan! But unfortunately he did not expect (but thats his job) that Raikonen will not be able to turn and will slow donw. Massa bumped into Raikonen put him into wall and that way used Raikonen to block Grosejan. (not intentionaly, but thats how it was)

As about drive trough tunnel its different story, but please dont tell that Raikonen Caused colision with Masa!