Flexible wings controversy 2010

[strad]

We've seen the cable for the FW adjuster before.

[forpy]

Can anyone explain what is going on with Vettel's front wing just before the crash with Button? At around 50 seconds the wing seems to be really flexing. Is this due to being in the turbulent air?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp8tTb-_Y-E

[747heavy]

Can anyone explain what is going on with Vettel's front wing just before the crash with Button? At around 50 seconds the wing seems to be really flexing. Is this due to being in the turbulent air?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp8tTb-_Y-E

Welcome to the forum forpy

Yes, it´s due to the turbulences of the car in front.
If you watch the clip from the Webber crash in Valencia (a few pages back ) you
will see the same thing.

[rjsa]

It seems a bit more intense to me - during MW's crash the end that sees clear air does not dip to the ground like in SV's case.

[fausto cedros]

In my opinion there's still something with that front wing, and this video clearly testifies it.I guess there's still a nonlinear behaviour of the wing flexing in and out of the wake (especially on the right side) and that unbalanced load has lots more to do with the accident than the supposed Vettel's unability to overtake. The hypocrite Newey isn't telling anything about safety this time? The F-duct has not caused any accident so far, his wings do have, in my opinion.
Maybe it's too early for Macca and Merc to call off concerns for rb wings. We'll see next race after monza, btw.

[SiLo]

Yeah the wing should not be moving that much at all, no matter if there is a wake on one side and clean air on the other. It could also be the yaw of the car as he was turning also, but still, that movement was huge.

[forty-two]

Yeah the wing should not be moving that much at all, no matter if there is a wake on one side and clean air on the other. It could also be the yaw of the car as he was turning also, but still, that movement was huge.

Perhaps that could explain why Vettel lost it? It's definitely not the 1st time we've seen a Red Bull lose it right behind a competitor (Webber/Kovaleinen, Webber/Hamilton etc. etc.)

[marcush.]

err.. I would think the grip loss appeared at the rear not at the front....in this Vettel incident ..or would you say it was a big fluctuation of front grip levels making him overreact? and effectively correcting into Button?

To me it looked more like his flick to the right and steer to the left thing started a pendulum effect that was exagerated by the need to apply the brakes to make the corner....would have to see the data to analyse..of course..

[forty-two]

Agreed. The initial CAUSE of the incident was surely Vettel making two swift direction changes, causing the car to start to fishtail etc. etc.

But, I don't recall any other car on the grid showing such a wobbly wing when tucked under the gearbox of another car. Perhaps this demonstrates the flexibility of the RB6's FW afterall (after all because many observers have commented that the RB6's FW didn't seem to be as flexible in Spa as it has been in the previous few races).

[fausto cedros]

would you say it was a big fluctuation of front grip levels making him overreact? and effectively correcting into Button?

I think so.

[marcush.]

I don´t see this,really tbh.
If it were a sudden grip increase(the only thing making the car darting into the opponent he would have had low downforce before ..making it impossible to do the first part of sverving to the left...the question there is how long would action
(front wing going down creating vertical force )be before grip would result?Is this instant response or does the tyre need time to generate additional grip...

[DaveW]

...the question there is how long would action
(front wing going down creating vertical force )be before grip would result?Is this instant response or does the tyre need time to generate additional grip...

If conventional unsteady aero applies in ground effect, then the initial D/F change would be 50% of the "steady state" change, increasing to 80% after travelling approx 3 chord lengths (according to Wagner's function). Presumably, therefore, the front wing itself would develop D/F quickly, but if airflow changes around the rest of the vehicle affect D/F, then this is likely to develop much more slowly. Hence transient over-steer, perhaps, when emerging from the "shelter" of a tow. A flexible front wing is likely to exacerbate the problem.

[marcush.]

...the question there is how long would action
(front wing going down creating vertical force )be before grip would result?Is this instant response or does the tyre need time to generate additional grip...

If conventional unsteady aero applies in ground effect, then the initial D/F change would be 50% of the "steady state" change, increasing to 80% after travelling approx 3 chord lengths (according to Wagner's function). Presumably, therefore, the front wing itself would develop D/F quickly, but if airflow changes around the rest of the vehicle affect D/F, then this is likely to develop much more slowly. Hence transient over-steer, perhaps, when emerging from the "shelter" of a tow. A flexible front wing is likely to exacerbate the problem.

we got the df then but grip itself how long does it take a sliding tyre to gain grip again -as this would be the scenario there...this could also be influenced of how much it was sliding to start with or if it was a misinterpreteation of car feedback making seb doing too much... we will nnever now .It was driver error .period.He did start something he was unable to control.

[fausto cedros]

Well, it's the feedback to the steering input that must have been weird, taking Seb to the overreaction and making the car unstable. The aero transient must have had its share.

[wrcsti]

After watching this
http://vodpod.com/watch/4337023-dailymo ... ton-vettel
I dont think it had to do with flexi wings, it seems that he turned just as he slammed on the brakes. Thats a very easy way to upset a car, especially one as twitchy as an F1 car.