venkyhere wrote: ↑30 Jun 2024, 08:47
Nothing inadequate about either images. It only depends on what the definition of 'some portion of the ball on the line' means :
(i) the contact patch of the ball on the grass has to be touching the white line
OR
(ii) the plan-view projection 'image' (rather than actual ball) of the ball on the ground has to have some portion touching the white line.
If it's (i), the ball is not touching ; if it's (ii) the ball is touching.
mwillems wrote: ↑29 Jun 2024, 20:47
And that's why I think it is a joke that this sport can't get it's act together. It may be out, but I doubt they can tell fully from those angles. If they are going to have zones to check for infractions, they should put suitable camera into position like they do in some football matches.
Since all 4 wheels have to be out, I'm also yet to see an image of the rear left. Those are the rules. All four tyres out. I'm more frustrated at the p*ss poor way they are making the decisions if this is all the imagery there is.
This I agree with. Should have had more infrastructure in place, if they were going to monitor track limits here. They were not expecting a track limit breach here, so didn't pay attention to the camera location. Nevertheless, from geometry measurements (white line to gravel distance v/s width of car) even this image is conclusive, in my opinion.
mwillems wrote: ↑29 Jun 2024, 21:16
I didn't even want to mention that the white line they drew to illustrate the alignment was against the outer edge of the track and not the outer edge of the painted white line
Seerix wrote: ↑29 Jun 2024, 21:46
I think Oscar was out of track limits tbh, but do you realize your white line is wrong on this mspaint masterpiece?
The wheel has to be on the blue line, hence the border of track limits is on the other side of the white line than what you have 'created'.
Even then, in my pathetic MS paint image, it will show that the track limit is breached, clearly. The size of the left rear tyre cannot be smaller than the size of the right rear tyre. There doesn't need to be a 'depth correction' in the image either, as the right rear tyre parallel on the road to the left rear tyre, offers very good reference of size of the hidden left rear tyre. This is not a confusing case of a sphere's 'projection' on the road, this is a case of the relative position of a cylinder standing on it's rolling side as it appears in the vertical projection. A pathetic MS paint job will suffice.
LionsHeart wrote: ↑29 Jun 2024, 22:25
I will say this about it: Oscar should have driven Turn 6 cleaner, that's all. Let him do his job better. Some drivers have already had their time reset for going outside the white line at Turn 6.
No let's never say this. Let's blame the stewards, just because they make 99 dumb decisions, let's add 1 to it, even if we know in the back of our minds that they are correct this time. Let's overload on the 99.
I don't know how many of you realize that rather than hoping to get the breach reversed, McLaren's protest was more purposed towards gaining clarity on what is the basis for the stewards to decide on track limits - clinching evidence of an actual image showing the crossing by the tyres or an 'implied evidence' from an image that isn't actually showing the wheel-crossing directly, but making it clear indirectly. If you still think FIA/Stewards screwed Piastri when he didn't deserve to, and want to play the victim game in your heads, please continue. Let me not be the irritating thorn amongst roses. #copium.
I only saw what was on the broadcast, and for me personally it is clear that Oscar drove all four wheels outside the white line. One person has already scolded me for geometry a little over a month ago. But I knew geometry well at school. I have no evidence that Oscar really drove with his rear left tire. The team did the right thing by protesting to clarify the details of how exactly the stewards make their decisions. Overall, like yesterday, I stand by my opinion, Oscar drove outside the limits and was penalized correctly. You have to drive within the track. Lando did not violate the rules on his fast lap, like many others.
I do not understand why people are discussing this petty news so willingly, as if Oscar is not at fault. He is a driver, a racing driver. It is his job to drive a racing car and he gets paid for it.
Am I happy with the stewards' decision? Definitely not, because it doesn't clarify what they are making their decisions on. And that's critically important! And it's not Oscar's driving that's to blame, but the stewards and the FIA are willing to take responsibility.
For the future, we just need to make the curbs even narrower. I wrote a post about the track changes, my post was deleted, as far as I know and a moderator comrade notified me about it. That's right, the message was not on the McLaren topic. But now this concerns McLaren personally, given the precedent. And as I wrote before the weekend, this will concern all the drivers and McLaren too.
Oscar is right in his own way when he said that they invested money and everything is great in turns 9-10, but why did the track organizers miss the exit from turn 6? There are changes there too, but as we can see, they are not enough. If I remember correctly, the width there is 1.8 meters.
I double-checked the data. At turns 9 and 10, the width from the white line to the gravel strip is 1.5 meters. At the exit of turn 6, it is 1.8 meters. I think the length is measured from the beginning of the edge of the white line, and what is the width of the white line? 10 cm? And in the photo, you can see that Oscar drives onto the gravel with his right wheels, and the front left wheel completely leaves the white line. Considering that at this point the chassis is moving parallel, we can assume that the rear left wheel also left the white line. This is my opinion and this is how it seems to me.
I've been fed up with this whole track limits thing for a long time. Last year was a nonsense when spectators had to wait for hours to find out the final results of the race. It was not for nothing that they said that Formula 1 was turning into a clown show.
What worries me is the speed of Red Bull compared to the rest. That's what I see as the problem for McLaren, not whether Oscar has broken the track limits or not.
