2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Cs98]

Final 2 races have 60p available for each driver, so Max needs to finish ahead of Norris or lose no more than 2p. With fresh PU and better feel with the car than Monza, I think he'll be on pole or close to pole and he'll be able to defend well I imagine.

Not in Vegas. RB seem to be the draggiest out of the top 4 teams now, without a proper low DF wing also. Also, we need to see if this good tyre wear in Brazil is sustainable or just a one off, like it was in the COTA sprint. Max will clinch it in Qatar. Vegas will be a Leclerc or Norris pole and an interesting race.

[Vanja #66]

Not in Vegas. RB seem to be the draggiest out of the top 4 teams now, without a proper low DF wing also. Also, we need to see if this good tyre wear in Brazil is sustainable or just a one off, like it was in the COTA sprint. Max will clinch it in Qatar. Vegas will be a Leclerc or Norris pole and an interesting race.

After that sh!tty Q for Max yesterday, I had a feeling the race will turn out to be one sided and in his favour. It happened many times before and it happened again. So I'm gonna stick with my feeling for Vegas

Strongly disagree about RB20 drag, on fairly equal wing level Max had a +2kmh advantage in SQ3. In Monza they were also equal on Top Speed even with McLaren's illegal rear wing. Tyre warm up will be crucial for Vegas Q and this is where RB20 seems to be better than even McL38, let alone Ferrari

[Sergej]

With this car every time it's like shooting in the dark, but I would not be pessimistic about Vegas too. To clinch the title there, Max does not need to win the race, "only" to outscore Lando (or take each other out of the race ), I think that with Ferrari's problem to get temperatures into tyres and McLaren without their "special" wing it can be doable, he can have a good quali and then defend in the race.

[basti313]

You can not tell anything about Vegas. It was resurfaced just for the race last year. Now there was traffic for one year with trucks on this tarmac. I fear it will be super bumpy compared to last year and the grip level is completely unknown.

[PapayaFan481]

... even with McLaren's illegal rear wing....

Here you go with that nonsense again. Point to us all please the races where McLaren were disqualified for running an illegal rear wing??

You can't because they didn't. Their wing passed all the required tests and so was legal. The rules were changed and they changed the wing.

This is no different than in previous years where Red Bull had to make changes mid season, or Ferrari had to make changes etc. It is the very core of F1 to push the rules wherever you can.

[PapayaFan481]

Just a thought on yesterday's race.

First off Max showed just how good he is with that drive, so not to take anything away from him.

I am wondering whether a newer PU offers improved drive-ability compared to older ones? Because Max seemed to have better traction than pretty much anyone else on the grid yesterday - including Checo.

[Cs98]

Not in Vegas. RB seem to be the draggiest out of the top 4 teams now, without a proper low DF wing also. Also, we need to see if this good tyre wear in Brazil is sustainable or just a one off, like it was in the COTA sprint. Max will clinch it in Qatar. Vegas will be a Leclerc or Norris pole and an interesting race.

After that sh!tty Q for Max yesterday, I had a feeling the race will turn out to be one sided and in his favour. It happened many times before and it happened again. So I'm gonna stick with my feeling for Vegas

Strongly disagree about RB20 drag, on fairly equal wing level Max had a +2kmh advantage in SQ3. In Monza they were also equal on Top Speed even with McLaren's illegal rear wing. Tyre warm up will be crucial for Vegas Q and this is where RB20 seems to be better than even McL38, let alone Ferrari

Ferrari clearly had better SL speed in Monza quali, they are a slight favourite in Vegas for me based on last year and recent results, followed closely by McLaren. As far as RB race pace in the dry, I need to see it for a full race before I believe it. Mexico was a disaster, COTA race was bad, Singapore miles behind McLaren. I've only seen two positive signs in the dry and that was Brazil sprint and COTA sprint.

[Cs98]

Just a thought on yesterday's race.

First off Max showed just how good he is with that drive, so not to take anything away from him.

I am wondering whether a newer PU offers improved drive-ability compared to older ones? Because Max seemed to have better traction than pretty much anyone else on the grid yesterday - including Checo.

Doubt it, the new engine would be running the same modes and engine maps. In general the engine is less important in the wet because you are more traction than power limited.

[basti313]

I am wondering whether a newer PU offers improved drive-ability compared to older ones? Because Max seemed to have better traction than pretty much anyone else on the grid yesterday - including Checo.

No, the difference was the balance. The strongest difference was to the Ferrari, they had an extremely strong front. You basically could not outbrake Leclerc, he could brake so much later. Here it just helped, that the RedBull is too understeery. What kills the car in most situations made it more easy to accelerate in the wet.

[marcel171281]

I am wondering whether a newer PU offers improved drive-ability compared to older ones? Because Max seemed to have better traction than pretty much anyone else on the grid yesterday - including Checo.

No, the difference was the balance. The strongest difference was to the Ferrari, they had an extremely strong front. You basically could not outbrake Leclerc, he could brake so much later. Here it just helped, that the RedBull is too understeery. What kills the car in most situations made it more easy to accelerate in the wet.

Uhm, have you seen how easy and late the RB could brake and simultaniously rotate? The front of the RB was very strong yesterday.

[basti313]

I am wondering whether a newer PU offers improved drive-ability compared to older ones? Because Max seemed to have better traction than pretty much anyone else on the grid yesterday - including Checo.

No, the difference was the balance. The strongest difference was to the Ferrari, they had an extremely strong front. You basically could not outbrake Leclerc, he could brake so much later. Here it just helped, that the RedBull is too understeery. What kills the car in most situations made it more easy to accelerate in the wet.

Uhm, have you seen how easy and late the RB could brake and simultaniously rotate? The front of the RB was very strong yesterday.

You are talking about T1? That is a different game due to the banking and only slight turn in. This nearly feels like braking on a straight.
AND...did YOU see, that Verstappen could not do anything on the brake there against Leclerc?
I was more referring to T4, this turn produces much more understeer. There the Ferrari was sooo much later on the brake when it counted against Max and Lando...no chance for them.

[Cassius]

No, the difference was the balance. The strongest difference was to the Ferrari, they had an extremely strong front. You basically could not outbrake Leclerc, he could brake so much later. Here it just helped, that the RedBull is too understeery. What kills the car in most situations made it more easy to accelerate in the wet.

Uhm, have you seen how easy and late the RB could brake and simultaniously rotate? The front of the RB was very strong yesterday.

You are talking about T1? That is a different game due to the banking and only slight turn in. This nearly feels like braking on a straight.
AND...did YOU see, that Verstappen could not do anything on the brake there against Leclerc?
I was more referring to T4, this turn produces much more understeer. There the Ferrari was sooo much later on the brake when it counted against Max and Lando...no chance for them.

I agree that it is likely the turn 4 and 12 understeer issues he had in the dry were less an issue with lower speeds in the rain. But I don't think that was the only reason. Probably also the Honda driveability helped them a bit in the rain.

I think the main reason is that the overall balance was really good. I am really wondering whether they have found something on the setup after the learnings from COTA and Mexico. They still seemed slower in the dry vs McLaren but that was expected. I did not expect them to be faster than Ferrari.

[dia6olo]

Over the past few weeks there have been questions raised about flexi wings, mini DRS's, adjustable bibs and now water in tires.
Since then it is very clear to me that McLaren have lost something, they still look very competitive and are arguably still the quickest but it is also clear to me they have had their wings clipped their performances have clearly taken a hit.

I genuinely don't see them as a threat anymore and would not be surprised to see them fade to second best maybe even third best over the remaining races...

Max could have 2 DNF's and I'd still back him to see Lando and Maclaren off.

[Vettel165]

This car should be quite good in Qatar. Just speculation of course. Look at all this medium-high speed corners it has in S3 and S1. Given the car, Max is usually very strong and makes the difference in this type of corners.

[basti313]

Uhm, have you seen how easy and late the RB could brake and simultaniously rotate? The front of the RB was very strong yesterday.

You are talking about T1? That is a different game due to the banking and only slight turn in. This nearly feels like braking on a straight.
AND...did YOU see, that Verstappen could not do anything on the brake there against Leclerc?
I was more referring to T4, this turn produces much more understeer. There the Ferrari was sooo much later on the brake when it counted against Max and Lando...no chance for them.

I agree that it is likely the turn 4 and 12 understeer issues he had in the dry were less an issue with lower speeds in the rain. But I don't think that was the only reason. Probably also the Honda driveability helped them a bit in the rain.

I think the main reason is that the overall balance was really good. I am really wondering whether they have found something on the setup after the learnings from COTA and Mexico. They still seemed slower in the dry vs McLaren but that was expected. I did not expect them to be faster than Ferrari.

Sorry, I can not see, that the understeer in T4 and T12 went away in any way. Unfortunately I do not find the recap in Youtube to share a link, but it was slapstick how early both Ver and Per had to brake into T4. Ver never had a go at anyone there if I remember correctly and Per lost the place against Hamilton although being on the inside. In contrast Ber overtook Ham without issue in T4 around the same time.
T12 understeer was most probably simply not an issue as Ver always took a different line and was the only driver using the inside kerb there. Without this I fear the overtaking would have been super difficult.
No, I really think it was just the point, that in the wet it simply balances as the rear is anyways constantly sliding on these cars in the wet, so you can live with a car that understeers in the dry. The front itself is not getting better, just because it is wet...