Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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Cold Fussion
Cold Fussion
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Re: Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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That's not his point, his point is that if it was a big Renault sticker on the side of the car then Red Bull would have talked up the Renault alliance. The merit of such talk is completely irrelevant because it's a pure marketing exercise.

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FoxHound
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Re: Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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Cold Fussion wrote:That's not his point, his point is that if it was a big Renault sticker on the side of the car then Red Bull would have talked up the Renault alliance. The merit of such talk is completely irrelevant because it's a pure marketing exercise.
I would say any talk of Infiniti is a marketing excercise.
But, to a degree, Infiniti is Renault(via the Renault/Nissan merger). Renault do not sell cars in the US, Infiniti do. Infiniti do not sell(many) cars in Europe, Renault do.
But those that know the sport, or even have mild passing interest in it, know Red Bull as powered by Renault.
In fact I have not once heard anyone I have spoken to refer to Red Bull as infiniti red bull racing other than official PR or James Allen.... :lol:
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FoxHound
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Re: Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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Oh, and Mateschitz has gone and bought another race track....too much money!

http://www.inautonews.com/mateschitz-bu ... n-circuit?
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djos
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Re: Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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FoxHound wrote:
Can you list what "technical"expertise infiniti bring to the Red Bull table?
No idea but RedBull repeatedly talked up their technical alliance and that's the point.

Infiniti were primary sponsor, Renault was just another supplier.
"In downforce we trust"

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Blackout
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Re: Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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FoxHound
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Re: Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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djos wrote:
FoxHound wrote:
Can you list what "technical"expertise infiniti bring to the Red Bull table?
No idea but RedBull repeatedly talked up their technical alliance and that's the point.

Infiniti were primary sponsor, Renault was just another supplier.
That's plain PR then.
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djos
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Re: Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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FoxHound wrote:
djos wrote:
FoxHound wrote:
Can you list what "technical"expertise infiniti bring to the Red Bull table?
No idea but RedBull repeatedly talked up their technical alliance and that's the point.

Infiniti were primary sponsor, Renault was just another supplier.
That's plain PR then.
It's a possibility sure but the other possibility is that they didn't go into specifics so as to keep their competitors in the dark add to exactly what they were up to.
"In downforce we trust"

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FoxHound
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Re: Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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djos wrote:
It's a possibility sure but the other possibility is that they didn't go into specifics so as to keep their competitors in the dark add to exactly what they were up to.
Are you proposing that infiniti would operate outside of the regulations?
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djos
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Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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FoxHound wrote:
djos wrote:
It's a possibility sure but the other possibility is that they didn't go into specifics so as to keep their competitors in the dark add to exactly what they were up to.
Are you proposing that infiniti would operate outside of the regulations?
I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion mate?

All I'm saying is they aren't providing specifics. This isn't very different to McLaren when they had a technical partnership with defence contractor bae systems (irrespective of sponsorship size differences).

http://www.sportspromedia.com/news/red_ ... i_alliance
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Tim.Wright
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Re: Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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The first sentence pretty clearly states its a marketing agreement.
Not the engineer at Force India

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djos
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Tim.Wright wrote:
The first sentence pretty clearly states its a marketing agreement.
You didnt read the entire paragraph, that was referring to the engine staying as a "Renault" and not being rebadged. In the second paragraph it states " focused on high-profile marketing and Formula One technical activities".

what those are exactly is anyone's guess.
"In downforce we trust"

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FoxHound
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Re: Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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‘Leveraging the co-operative power of the Renault-Nissan Alliance, a unique relationship has been created with Red Bull Racing, focused on high-profile marketing and Formula One technical activities’. Infiniti logos will feature on the rear of the cars’ rear wings as well as on the race kit of world champion Sebastian Vettel and his teammate Mark Webber.

This ambiguity can be cut through pretty clearly.
Leveraging the co-operative power of the Renault-Nissan Alliance, a unique relationship has been created with Red Bull Racing, focused on high-profile marketing(Infiniti) and Formula One technical activities(Renault)’. Infiniti logos will feature on the rear of the cars’ rear wings as well as on the race kit of world champion Sebastian Vettel and his teammate Mark Webber.
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Tim.Wright
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Re: Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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djos wrote:
Tim.Wright wrote:
The first sentence pretty clearly states its a marketing agreement.
You didnt read the entire paragraph, that was referring to the engine staying as a "Renault" and not being rebadged. In the second paragraph it states " focused on high-profile marketing and Formula One technical activities".

what those are exactly is anyone's guess.
I read the whole thing. Its the classical PR release you get when even a footwear provider sponsors a team and claim their "science" is part of the team's success.
Not the engineer at Force India

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Phil
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Re: Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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FoxHound wrote:That's plain PR then.
This is all pretty off-topic. The whole point for bringing up Infiniti was because it was mentioned that Renault feels it didn't get enough credit when they were winning and now that they are losing, they are in the negative headlines. The point of bringing up Infiniti up was because of them being name-sponsor, hence why they got all the flowers during their 8 titles. No point in arguing what they did or didn't if the talk is about PR - nothing more and nothing less.

And about them not getting enough credit during those 4+4 titles...

Lets be clear here; The engines during the V8 and during those years of dominance were frozen and all within the same ballpark performance wise. Yes, Renault perhaps had the least amount of power, but what they lacked there, they made up in better fuel efficiency. They also had some unique advantage they could exploit for the EBD, which they couldn't highlight due to them not wanting other teams to know what exactly they were doing and get it banned (or IP reasons). Can't really expect RedBull to praise that engine while teams are still guessing as to what exactly they are doing to gain the advantage they are (engine maps, flexing wings etc) and not have them either copied or their advantage banned. Being quiet about what you are doing well is exactly how you stay at the top. I'm actually quite certain that that RedBull with a Mercedes or a Ferrari unit from 2010-2013 would have been ahead of other teams too. So the engine is probably rather insignificant (but not entirely due to the unique engine-maps).

Then the sport moves to a new formula where the engine becomes a dominant aspect of either performing or losing. Of course Renault is going to get slammed if they are way down the order with what they delivered. Don't like it - then maybe an engine (dominated) formula is not what they want to be in (as an engine manufacturer). Honda has the same issue too; The focus is to a large degree on the engines - you win and get glory or you fall behind and suffer the consequences. Besides; wasn't it Renault who wanted this as well = new engines? I think they would have prefered 4 cylinder engines, but V6 was the middleground between what Renault and Ferrari wanted.

Anyway, this is no different to an aero dominated formula with a spec engine (or similar engines) and some aero-engineers do a better job than others. Those who do well (like Newey and his team) get a lot of glory, those who don't, well, they get swapped out.

The sport may have hurt itself by introducing a complicated token system (to avoid high costs that would be passed over to the customer teams who could not afford such engines) - but lets not forget; They all signed up for these rules. Every one of them knew what the rules were and accepted it.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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FoxHound
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Re: Infiniti Red Bull Racing 2015

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Not a fan of TJ13, but sometimes he gets it right. Sometimes.
I think he is wayyyyy off the mark on this one, but he is proposing Renault could be about to purchase Red Bull.

http://thejudge13.com/2015/09/17/could- ... l-racing/?

Something along the lines that Mateschitz has been irked for some time, and could be tempted to sell up. This is one of the reasons Renault have not officially decided on what to do.

But there is something that was written that got me curious. Allied to Mario Illien(engine guru) being on Red Bull's payroll....
It also would be impossible for Red Bull to have commissioned/developed an F1 power unit that would be competitive in 2016 – despite the goings on in the secret building 9 with its 40 strong staff and full size Virtual Test Track.
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