2023 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Jeddah, March 17 - 19

[RonMexico]

Plenty occurred post race...

I do however think there needs to be clearer rules regarding this. I think there should be no ‘addressing the car’ when it pulls up for its penalty. Therefore all the mechanics shouldn’t be able to move from the positions they start at when the car is about to be driven into the pit box. That way you have no jacks in place, no mechanics about to lift the tyre away, no wheel nut guns about to buzz the nut off the wheel. If the mechanics keep in line with the 2 yellow lines on the pit box this means that it becomes impossible to start to work on the car or inadvertently touch it.

Easiest way is state that pit crew (team members maybe?) are not allowed onto the pit lane until penalty is served?

That would call for shortening the amount of seconds IMO, because you are making it effectively longer than 5 secs.

A 5 second penalty is rarely ever actually punitive in practice

[langedweil]

Easiest way is state that pit crew (team members maybe?) are not allowed onto the pit lane until penalty is served?

I'd say it shouldn't be that complicated to police the "Do Not Touch The Car" for 5 or 10 seconds ..
I mean .. just don't touch it; take 5.5s or even 6s to be safe.
If you do touch it, well .. you're a dork and get punished.

Possibly easier to police if the penalty time was added after completion of the service?
For instance: car arrives and gets tyres etc, crew boss raises his hand signifying they are finished, but no one allowed to touch the car for 5 sec from that point. If it is ready to rejoin, that means jacks away and no crewmember doing anything at all, just as if it was leaving the box. It would be black or white then if something was touched or tweaked after the crew boss himself said 'right, start counting.

Could be, but wouldn't that be exactly the same except reversed ? What if the guy raises his hand too early ?
I'd say this discussion moves to fixing an issue that just doesn't exist. If it ain't broken, don't fix it .. just police it, and punish when needed within 1 or 2 laps (not after 35mins or so).

Regarding the proposed waiting in the pitbox; to have ppl running from out of the pitbox is way too dangerous imho.

[avantman]

I remember that last year Seb was leading in one race.

My bad, he led in Baku 2021 rather than last year. But yesterday it felt real and on merit, not like in Baku when he only led due to late stop.

[Sieper]

I fully expected Lewis on yellows to achieve more those last 30 laps. Something is up imho.

He hurt the tires by being in georges gearbox for too long. In the first race george damaged his tires by being stuck behind hamilton for too long. Its obvious whats happening this year. You just cannot follow well anymore, unless you have a massive pace advantage.

Would have loved to see how the newer mediums vs older hards would have played out but the safety car took that away from us.

Yeah, that safety car seemed a bit uncalled for too. I would have thought they could have raced on, or just get a small VSC period and push the car further. Would have been interesting what Lewis could have done on a red stint, I was expecting Max and Checo to go to red too.

[Big Tea]

I'd say it shouldn't be that complicated to police the "Do Not Touch The Car" for 5 or 10 seconds ..
I mean .. just don't touch it; take 5.5s or even 6s to be safe.
If you do touch it, well .. you're a dork and get punished.

Possibly easier to police if the penalty time was added after completion of the service?
For instance: car arrives and gets tyres etc, crew boss raises his hand signifying they are finished, but no one allowed to touch the car for 5 sec from that point. If it is ready to rejoin, that means jacks away and no crewmember doing anything at all, just as if it was leaving the box. It would be black or white then if something was touched or tweaked after the crew boss himself said 'right, start counting.

Why do they even need to serve the penalty in the pit box? If the FIA wants it to be standardized, why not set up a designated "penalty box" area with a timer and lights and do it where the weigh bridge is during qualifying and free practice? It's usually the first set of garages in the pitlane; the driver could pull in, stop for the designated penalty time, and continue on down the pit lane.

I suppose you could argue that it would not be exactly 5 seconds (or whatever the time is) because you have to stop and accelerate again from the pit lane speed limit, but that seems more fair than serving the penalty under SC. I also see how there could be an issue if there are multiple people serving penalties on the same lap, but that is so exceptionally rare. I guess you'd just have to wait in line in that instance, if it ever arose.

(and langedweil)

Good point. It would be easy to set cones offline that would take around 5s to navigate, and it would not even need to be in the pit or even a stop to lose temperature or risk over heating. It would be a true 5s time penalty, or twice for bad boys. Just like FE powerboost

[organic]

Possibly easier to police if the penalty time was added after completion of the service?
For instance: car arrives and gets tyres etc, crew boss raises his hand signifying they are finished, but no one allowed to touch the car for 5 sec from that point. If it is ready to rejoin, that means jacks away and no crewmember doing anything at all, just as if it was leaving the box. It would be black or white then if something was touched or tweaked after the crew boss himself said 'right, start counting.

Why do they even need to serve the penalty in the pit box? If the FIA wants it to be standardized, why not set up a designated "penalty box" area with a timer and lights and do it where the weigh bridge is during qualifying and free practice? It's usually the first set of garages in the pitlane; the driver could pull in, stop for the designated penalty time, and continue on down the pit lane.

I suppose you could argue that it would not be exactly 5 seconds (or whatever the time is) because you have to stop and accelerate again from the pit lane speed limit, but that seems more fair than serving the penalty under SC. I also see how there could be an issue if there are multiple people serving penalties on the same lap, but that is so exceptionally rare. I guess you'd just have to wait in line in that instance, if it ever arose.

(and langedweil)

Good point. It would be easy to set cones offline that would take around 5s to navigate, and it would not even need to be in the pit or even a stop to lose temperature or risk over heating. It would be a true 5s time penalty, or twice for bad boys. Just like FE powerboost

That is a good idea

[rohit.d.agarwal]

I remember that last year Seb was leading in one race.

My bad, he led in Baku 2021 rather than last year. But yesterday it felt real and on merit, not like in Baku when he only led due to late stop.

Partially agree, if Max wouldn't have had driveshaft issue in qualifying, I really doubt Checo would have been able to take him on the track on raceday.

[Mostlyeels]

The safety car was unnecessary.

Could be. The only thing that comes to my mind is the situation, In which Stroll's car could not be left at that gap that he stopped at. There was very little space and it blocked the way completely. They might have to push his car back to the track to the gap in the barriers at the other side of the track.

On the Sky commentary they checked with the stewards and they said the GPS indicated the car was still on track (even though it wasn’t). E: probably race control, not the stewards?

[ringo]

First AM front row start in 63 years wasn’t it? Sure I heard that stat mentioned.

—————————————

Yes, but where was his teammate?

[langedweil]

Possibly easier to police if the penalty time was added after completion of the service?
For instance: car arrives and gets tyres etc, crew boss raises his hand signifying they are finished, but no one allowed to touch the car for 5 sec from that point. If it is ready to rejoin, that means jacks away and no crewmember doing anything at all, just as if it was leaving the box. It would be black or white then if something was touched or tweaked after the crew boss himself said 'right, start counting.

Why do they even need to serve the penalty in the pit box? If the FIA wants it to be standardized, why not set up a designated "penalty box" area with a timer and lights and do it where the weigh bridge is during qualifying and free practice? It's usually the first set of garages in the pitlane; the driver could pull in, stop for the designated penalty time, and continue on down the pit lane.

I suppose you could argue that it would not be exactly 5 seconds (or whatever the time is) because you have to stop and accelerate again from the pit lane speed limit, but that seems more fair than serving the penalty under SC. I also see how there could be an issue if there are multiple people serving penalties on the same lap, but that is so exceptionally rare. I guess you'd just have to wait in line in that instance, if it ever arose.

(and langedweil)

Good point. It would be easy to set cones offline that would take around 5s to navigate, and it would not even need to be in the pit or even a stop to lose temperature or risk over heating. It would be a true 5s time penalty, or twice for bad boys. Just like FE powerboost

Yeah, that would be good fun .. some sort of obligated side-tour-obstacle-route
Where if you're really really good, you can go through it in 4s (in case of a 10s penalty you do another tour the next lap), but you might risk your FW; if you'd rather play safe then take 5 or 6 seconds (or 20, up to you) to end it with FW and wheels attached ..

We call it the humiliation track !
Adding a bit of circus-value (as is a painted marina) would work fine these days

[CaribouBread]

A simpler solution would be to let the cars be touched by both front/rear jacks but the car can't be lifted for the time the penalty is served. They're allowed to be touched by the front jacks currently anyways, just get rid of the rear confusion.

[Stu]

First AM front row start in 63 years wasn’t it? Sure I heard that stat mentioned.

—————————————

Yes, but where was his teammate?

6 tenths off, but I’m not sure what point you are trying to make?

Not sure how it is possible to attempt to derail a thread with a single post!

[dr_cooke]

Easiest way is state that pit crew (team members maybe?) are not allowed onto the pit lane until penalty is served?

That would call for shortening the amount of seconds IMO, because you are making it effectively longer than 5 secs.

A 5 second penalty is rarely ever actually punitive in practice

A penalty spot at the end of the pit lane. Let the teams perform their pitstops as normal and have the penalized car stop at a "penalty spot" for 5 s at the end of the pit lane just before rejoining the track

[Big Tea]

Why do they even need to serve the penalty in the pit box? If the FIA wants it to be standardized, why not set up a designated "penalty box" area with a timer and lights and do it where the weigh bridge is during qualifying and free practice? It's usually the first set of garages in the pitlane; the driver could pull in, stop for the designated penalty time, and continue on down the pit lane.

I suppose you could argue that it would not be exactly 5 seconds (or whatever the time is) because you have to stop and accelerate again from the pit lane speed limit, but that seems more fair than serving the penalty under SC. I also see how there could be an issue if there are multiple people serving penalties on the same lap, but that is so exceptionally rare. I guess you'd just have to wait in line in that instance, if it ever arose.

(and langedweil)

Good point. It would be easy to set cones offline that would take around 5s to navigate, and it would not even need to be in the pit or even a stop to lose temperature or risk over heating. It would be a true 5s time penalty, or twice for bad boys. Just like FE powerboost

Yeah, that would be good fun .. some sort of obligated side-tour-obstacle-route
Where if you're really really good, you can go through it in 4s (in case of a 10s penalty you do another tour the next lap), but you might risk your FW; if you'd rather play safe then take 5 or 6 seconds (or 20, up to you) to end it with FW and wheels attached ..

We call it the humiliation track !
Adding a bit of circus-value (as is a painted marina) would work fine these days

I was thinking more sort of putting it where the weight check is, as it is not used during the actual race and is a safe monitored spot that wont kill the tyres.

[ringo]

First AM front row start in 63 years wasn’t it? Sure I heard that stat mentioned.

—————————————

Yes, but where was his teammate?

6 tenths off, but I’m not sure what point you are trying to make?

Not sure how it is possible to attempt to derail a thread with a single post!

Just simple math. The two redbulls were closer with their gap. Hamilton's lap was an outlier. He does have those, and Rosberg and Bottas are qualifying specialists compared to Perez.
So Hamilton is right when judgeing that the rb19 is the most dominant car ever.
It's still very close to 2015 yes in terms of race pace. But more to come to determine that this year.